Thoughts on the App Store

Subforum for discussion and help with ScummVM's iPhone port

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ovvldc
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Post by ovvldc » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:43 pm

rotane wrote:Office files (.doc, .ppt, .html, .pdf, etc.) are not interpreted code; SCUMM games are.
Actually, PDF might qualify. Postscript is certainly an interpreted drawing/printing language...

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md5
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Post by md5 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:50 am

I just found this related page which I found awfully funny
http://www.ismashphone.com/2009/11/adob ... phone.html
“Flash Player not available for your device. Apple restricts use of technologies required by products like Flash Player. Until Apple eliminates these restrictions, Adobe cannot provide Flash Player for the iPhone or iPod touch".
Way to go...

subspark
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Post by subspark » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:18 pm

Download inherit the earth on app store. Scummvm is bundled with it. No biggie.

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md5
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Post by md5 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:35 pm

subspark wrote:Download inherit the earth on app store. Scummvm is bundled with it. No biggie.
The actual problem is that ScummVM needs to be bundled with game data for the App Store. Only the original copyright holders can do that. In the case of ITE, iPhSoft obtained the rights to distribute the game from Wyrmkeep and used ScummVM for the iPhone release of the game.

ScummVM can't be released on its own in AppStore, for the reasons explained in this thread

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Graxer
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Post by Graxer » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:11 pm

I feel that it should be noted that Apple seem to have become more leniant with the apps they allow on the App Store recently.

They have so far allowed a download manager app (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0pggE3L5Q [despite what the video title suggests it's not just for media files]) which has been there for quite a while now, and a camcorder app (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48IekNQMUQ4) which unsuprisingly allows you to record video files.

I don't know the reasoning behind this, but this may be a good sign for ScummVM. By allowing a download manager they are allowing anything to be stored and potentally run on an iPhone, even, technically, ScummVM games.

Uber Dowzen
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Post by Uber Dowzen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:04 am

Yes but as has been pointed out the problem isn't that Apple won't allow ScummVM onto the appstore, it's that the ScummVM team are taking a stand against Apple putting that in the EULA as it's there (and let's be completely honest about this) to stop Adobe and Sun putting in Java and Flash apps.

How about this, a sort of two pronged approach. Firstly I'm assuming the problem is that the orignal game execs and essentially work like interpreters and that most of the code is actually in the adventure game files. Correct?

Why not have an exec on the computer with iPhone connected which converts all the files into something similar to say a word document (which there's no problem with). In short take out all the problem part's from the adventure files. This can then be put on the iPhone by USB or Wi-Fi. Would it be possible for ScummVM to fill in the removed parts by having those hardcoded into the app? It would mean that each game would have to be specifically added to the scummvm app but I don't see why that wouldn't work. Unless I'm missing something...

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Vinterstum
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Post by Vinterstum » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:26 am

Uber Dowzen wrote:Yes but as has been pointed out the problem isn't that Apple won't allow ScummVM onto the appstore, it's that the ScummVM team are taking a stand against Apple putting that in the EULA as it's there (and let's be completely honest about this) to stop Adobe and Sun putting in Java and Flash apps.

How about this, a sort of two pronged approach. Firstly I'm assuming the problem is that the orignal game execs and essentially work like interpreters and that most of the code is actually in the adventure game files. Correct?

Why not have an exec on the computer with iPhone connected which converts all the files into something similar to say a word document (which there's no problem with). In short take out all the problem part's from the adventure files. This can then be put on the iPhone by USB or Wi-Fi. Would it be possible for ScummVM to fill in the removed parts by having those hardcoded into the app? It would mean that each game would have to be specifically added to the scummvm app but I don't see why that wouldn't work. Unless I'm missing something...
I assume you're talking about embedding all the script data and such into the executable (or somehow convert it to executable code?). Beyond a whole host of technical reasons why that would be tricky to do, the important blocker there is that all that data is part of the games, and is therefore copyrighted.

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Post by Uber Dowzen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:59 am

well presumably there are just some parts of the code that are a problem. Not every part of the file is a problem. So you could have software that filters out all the assets into one file and then ScummVM fills in the code parts which are a problem.

Also with the copyright issue, isn't illegal to copy games entirely off the disc like you do to run them through scummvm? And to put them on your iphone with the jailbroken version? Which brings us to the important point, do the people who made the games in the first place actually care?

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Vinterstum
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Post by Vinterstum » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:33 am

Uber Dowzen wrote:well presumably there are just some parts of the code that are a problem. Not every part of the file is a problem. So you could have software that filters out all the assets into one file and then ScummVM fills in the code parts which are a problem.

Also with the copyright issue, isn't illegal to copy games entirely off the disc like you do to run them through scummvm? And to put them on your iphone with the jailbroken version? Which brings us to the important point, do the people who made the games in the first place actually care?
If you've bought the game, you can generally copy it wherever you want, as much as you want, as long as it's for personal use.

And whether the people who made the games in the first place care or not, isn't important at all, in fact it's completely irrelevant.

Seriously, until Apple changes their EULA (or we get some sort of written dispensation from the relevant parts), this is a dead issue.

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Post by Uber Dowzen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:49 am

I'm going to sound like a d**k (that's with a d not an f) for saying this but you're not going to get a written dispensation unless you ask for one. Something tells me Apple don't even know about this forum...

fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:17 am

We are not asking for dispensation. People have suggested countless times that we should just try, and maybe we are lucky and slip through. Or that we should stay vague with the description and they might not notice. etc. etc.

But even if Apple let's us slip through by accident, we'd still be violating their terms, and we'd be at their whim, with the possibility of being cut of any day.

Hence, we are waiting for them to change their terms. Unfortunately, with the upcoming iPad, it seems this is more unlikely to happen than ever. In particular, I bet they have tried as hard as possible to make jail breaking impossible on it. So, folks, don't hold your breath for an iPad version either. Apple (whose products I have been using for decades, by the way) simply doesn't want an open platform, they want it locked down as much as possible, with only Apple-approved vendors and Apple-approved apps.

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Post by Uber Dowzen » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:18 pm

Yeah but my point is they won't change it unless they know people want it changed.

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Vinterstum
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Post by Vinterstum » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:25 pm

Uber Dowzen wrote:Yeah but my point is they won't change it unless they know people want it changed.
They know; there's been some highly publicized cases involving these exact EULA clauses (see the C64 emulator which made it into the App Store and later got pulled, for example).

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Chiffa
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Post by Chiffa » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:12 am

The C64 emulator is available on the AppStore now as well as a Sega emulator is coming soon. It seems Apple are ok with the idea if the games are bundled or available via DLC. Considering there will be shared document storage in OS 3.2 would it be possible to make a version of ScummVM bundled with a free game and put the other games in shared storage to play from there?

fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:52 pm

The C64 emulator is back because they locked it down, made it impossible to extend it; in particular, they disabled the BASIC. (Or rather, hid it ;) so that you can't use it without jailbreaking).

In principle it would be OK to make versions of ScummVM bundled with free games (or multiple versions, one for each game), at least as long as the respective license terms of the games in question permit this.

However, using external data from some "share space" would again violate Apple's terms. Hey, if it was that simple, we wouldn't have to bundle with a free game in the first place, would we? :)

So, we would have to crippled ScummVM for this, and remove the ability to add extra games to the launcher.

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