What files go in each of the 6 Loom 5 1/4 disks?

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cisco17
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What files go in each of the 6 Loom 5 1/4 disks?

Post by cisco17 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:28 pm

I recently got some Loom 5 1/4 disks. Sadly, all of them were erased and rewritten back in the day.

As I have the 3 1/2 version, I want to put the files on each disk so I can get the contents back to that 5 1/4 disks.

The problem is that I don't know how to know what files go in each disk, and have no luck looking on the internet for images of the original floppies.

Is there anyone with the original disks (I think the regional versions is not important) to show my DIR results of each disk?

I'm not asking for the files, just to know which files go in each disk. I guess the exe goes on the first disks and that install.bat go in each disk with a disk id file, but I don't know which LFL files go to which disk.

Thank you very much in advance!

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tsoliman
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Post by tsoliman » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:09 am

Just curious: why?

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Raziel
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Post by Raziel » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:57 am

I guess he wants to recover the 5 1/4 disks with a Loom installation.

Not the original files, of course, but maybe for a retro feeling when playing Loom from those original floppies.

Not sure that it will work though.
Back in the days, the devs played a lot of tricks on the files AND on the disks to get them to fit.

Good luck with that.

I remember trying to do the same with broken PC disks and the files NEVER fit :-)

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LogicDeLuxe
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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:55 am

Raziel wrote:Not sure that it will work though.
Back in the days, the devs played a lot of tricks on the files AND on the disks to get them to fit.
I don't think LucasArts is one of them. They usually even encouraged playing from backup copies in their manuals.
Raziel wrote:I remember trying to do the same with broken PC disks and the files NEVER fit :-)
There is VGA-Copy, a DOS tool which can format disks with more sectors. You need a DOS machine (or Windows 9x) for that. NT based systems can still read those disks, but you can't reliable write to them.

cisco17
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Post by cisco17 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:29 am

Hahaha, the answer to "why" I want to do that, is because I like having the original disks (that's why I bought them), and having the possibility to play with them it's also interesting.

Having the original disks but without the original files is not as fun. Also, as LogicDeLuxe said, in the case the disks don't work properly, there are DOS Tools (I use one called NFormat) that let you format the disks with a little more capacity. That's how I use to "repair" disks with errors when I buy them, but if I have the original good files, of course!

In that case, my 5 1/4 disks are erased, so I have to copy the contents from the 3 1/2 which I have, but I don't know exactly what files I need to put in each disk.

Something similar happened to me when I got Maniac Mansion in 5 1/4. Some files have errors in Disc 2, but I listed which files were there, reformatted the disk with a little more capacity and then copied the files again from the 3 1/2 one. Now it's working and playable from disk.

I understand that doing that kind of thing nowadays may seem useless, but hey... collecting is a thing where each one applies his rules :)

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Post by Collector » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:05 pm

LogicDeLuxe wrote:I don't think LucasArts is one of them. They usually even encouraged playing from backup copies in their manuals.
I think you misunderstand. What Raziel is talking about is getting the files to fit on the disks. For example the main resource file of a game was often broken into several smaller files to fit on the disks. A game would fit on fewer 3.5" disks than 5.25" disks, but the 5.25" smaller capacity required the partial volumes to be even smaller spread across more disks.

In other words they can be different files between 3.5" disks and 5.25".

cisco17
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Post by cisco17 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:06 pm

Collector wrote: I think you misunderstand. What Raziel is talking about is getting the files to fit on the disks. For example the main resource file of a game was often broken into several smaller files to fit on the disks. A game would fit on fewer 3.5" disks than 5.25" disks, but the 5.25" smaller capacity required the partial volumes to be even smaller spread across more disks.

In other words they can be different files between 3.5" disks and 5.25".
Well, this is the case on some games but not the older ones. Mostly on Lucas games it affects the ones that require hard disk instalation, like Indy and Fate of Atlantis, Monkey Island 2, Day of the Tentacle and Sam'n'Max.

But in the case of older games, the files were small .LFL files. These are the cases:

Maniac Mansion (enhanced, the only we received on spain)
(1) 3 1/2 720kb floppy
(2) 5 1/4 360kb floppies

Indy and Last Crusade (16 colors, we didn't get the 256 version in Spain)

(3) 3 1/2 720kb floppies
(6) 5 1/4 360kb floppies

Loom

(3) 3 1/2 720kb floppies
(6) 5 1/4 360kb floppies

Zak McKracken would probably be the same, but we did not have that game too.

In those cases, all the files were the same, but each 3 1/2 floppy equals to two of the 5 1/4. If I had the 6 Loom 5 1/2 floppies I could guess discs 1 and 2, disks 3 and 4 and disks 5 and 6 go together. But as I only have the 3 1/2 version, I don't know how to distribute those files.

More particular is the Monkey Island case, were here in Spain we had 5 different disk PC versions:

8 5 1/4 360KB floppies (16 colors version)
4 3 1/2 720KB floppies (16 colors version)
8 3 1/2 720KB floppies (256 colors version)
4 3 1/2 1,44MB floppies (256 colors version)
4 5 1/4 1,2MB floppies (256 colors version)


The last two use the same files exactly, while the rest of them use different .LEC files.

As a curiosity, I think I've heard that in some places Day of the Tentacle and Sam'n'Max were distributed in 5 1/4 floppies. Any info about that?

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LogicDeLuxe
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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:55 pm

cisco17 wrote:In that case, my 5 1/4 disks are erased, so I have to copy the contents from the 3 1/2 which I have, but I don't know exactly what files I need to put in each disk.
There is an index of rooms in the resources, which is made for a distinct version of the game. Whenever a room is not on the current disk, the engine asks for the disk number listed on that index, so changing the file distribution will result in the game asking for the wrong disk number.
If you can keep the same number of disks, then it should work to just copy the files as they are distributed on the other version. 40 track disks can usually be formatted with 80 tracks as well. 5.25" HD disks can be formatted to 1.44 MB. Those might be options to consider here.

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Post by cisco17 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:04 pm

Well, what I really wanted to do is to put the files on their original disks, not changing the distribution of the files, so this option is not good for me.

BUT the information you gave me solved the problem!

Comparing the files from Indy 3 (3.5 3 disk version) and Indy 3 (5.25 6 disk version), I found that this index you talk about is in the file 00.LFL. All the other files (except for install.bat asking for more disks) are identical, and the only difference in the 00.LFL is this index, so I found it and have been able to read it (it was really not hard).

Checking that it matches with the file distribution on Indy 3 disks, I started looking on internet for loom ega versions, and found one (english, but the distribution of the files is the same) that cames from the 5.25 disk set. So, with the 3.5 Loom 00.LFL and the 5.25 one, I made a list of the disk distribution, and found something strange:

Number of LFL - 3.5 disk - 5.25 disk
00.LFL 0-0
01.LFL 1-1
02.LFL 1-1
03.LFL 1-2
04.LFL 1-2
05.LFL 1-2
06.LFL 1-2
07.LFL 1-2
08.LFL 1-2
09.LFL 1-2
10.LFL 1-2
11.LFL 1-2
12.LFL 2-3
13.LFL 2-3
14.LFL 2-3
15.LFL 2-3
16.LFL 2-3
17.LFL 2-3
18.LFL 2-3
19.LFL 2-3
20.LFL 2-3
21.LFL 3-3*
22.LFL 2-3
23.LFL 2-4
24.LFL 2-4
25.LFL 2-4
26.LFL 3-5
27.LFL 2-4
28.LFL 2-4
29.LFL 3-3
30.LFL 2-4
31.LFL 2-4
32.LFL 2-4
33.LFL 2-4
34.LFL 3-5
35.LFL 3-5
36.LFL 3-5
37.LFL 3-5
38.LFL 3-5
39.LFL 3-5
40.LFL 3-5
41.LFL 3-5
42.LFL 3-5
43.LFL 3-6
44.LFL 3-6
45.LFL 3-6
46.LFL 3-6
47.LFL 3-6
48.LFL 1-1*
49.LFL 3-6
50.LFL 3-6
51.LFL 3-6
52.LFL 3-1
53.LFL 1-1
54.LFL 1-2
55.LFL 2-4
56.LFL 2-3
57.LFL 3-1
58.LFL 3-3
59.LFL 3-5
60.LFL 3-3
61.LFL 3-6
62.LFL 1-6
63.LFL 1-1
64.LFL 1-3
65.LFL 2-4
66.LFL 3-6
67.LFL 1-2
68.LFL 2-3
69.LFL 1-1
70.LFL 1-1
71.LFL 1-1*
72.LFL 1-1*
73.LFL 1-1*
74.LFL 1-1*
75.LFL 1-1*
76.LFL 1-1*
77.LFL 1-1*
78.LFL 1-1*
79.LFL 2-4
80.LFL 1-1*
81.LFL 1-2
82.LFL 4-7
83.LFL 4-7
84.LFL 4-7
85.LFL 4-7
86.LFL 2-4
87.LFL 3-1
99.LFL not specified (disk 1)

The files with * are files specified on the index but really not used in the game, so they don't exist in any disk. In indy3, when that happens they put a 0 instead of a 1, but it doesn't matter: the game never asks for this files. Also, the other interesting thing is in the files 82 to 85, that the index place on the disks 4 and 7... when the versions have only 3 and 6 disks.

Looking for information about that, I found that someone MADE this list before with the original disks (yeei), with more specific information (like that the 70.LFL file was in two discs in 3.5 version), so I finally have the accurate info. He also specifies that THERE WAS an extra disk, as an MT-32 update patch for the EGA version with a LOOMUP.EXE file containing those files:

READ.ME 2,144
DISK4.ID 0
82.LFL 58,677
83.LFL 59,241
84.LFL 30,506
85.LFL 26,279

I guess that in the 5.25 version it should be DISK7.ID. Also, I think that we never received this disk in spain, as Roland was almost used by nobody here.

Here is the list and the info:

https://dagarmansplayground.wordpress.c ... -ibm-5160/

Also, thank to this other place: https://forum.winworldpc.com/discussion ... eenshot/p6
I have seen that 70.LFL goes on every 5.25 disk. At least in english version. I guess spanish one too!

So, problem solved. I should be able to recreate the disks now. Thanks for watching :D

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