Dagger of Amon Ra - Talkie version - bugs

Bloodbat · Post by **Bloodbat** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:53 am

The spec might be enough to play Dead Rising..true...but I've never, ever...seen thousands of zombies at once...a couple hundreds...at most...maybe? Also, it's a console game

so, it doesn't really push the PC to its limits...want to work your rig? Run GTA IV...try highest settings, behold the amazing slideshow! (You lack vram and processor, mate, and that one DID change from the console version a lot quality wise)...probably DR2 is not a the highest settings due to your vram either

Also, most 3D games do send some (or a lot) of processing work to the vidcard (specially now with CUDA, OpenCl, DX11 and such), while, as far as I know, SCUMMVM doesn't.
Oh...and to preserve battery life, laptops are usually put together with not so fast hard drives, that degrades performance too, so maybe data is streaming too slowly.
Your processor is, also, kinda slow and MT-32 emulation IS quite demanding. (1.something Gigahertz, right?)
I'm not sure how SCUMMVM handles it, but if it's a single thread, coupled with your slow processor...it's gonna be problematic, have you tried other talkie games that also use MT-32? (Fate of Atlantis comes to mind) to see if the stuttering remains?
Want to play the talkie badly, with MT-32 and are willing to look at other options? There's a Gulikoza build of DosBox that sends MT-32 to another thread, it does benefit from your dual core...but it's an old DosBox version, I also build a DosBox from those MT-32 sources (separate thread) and it's (usually) up to date with SVN, if you're interested in either, PM so I can send you the links.
Oh...here's another idea...have you defragged??
And another thought: is the Windows sidebar open? I've noticed first hand it DOES slow gaming (quite a bit sometimes).

BobbinT · Post by **BobbinT** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:22 pm

I think I know that build, 'though mine was an older version.

As for other talkie version, I've played Eco Quest talkie to the end and not once has stuttering issues.

Right now I'm using Pix's build of ScummVM which allows pre-recorded MIDI to OGG as replacement BGMs. At least I can play normally having pre-recorder MT32 BGMs. Still prefer using MT32 though if possible.

Already played FOA quite many times especially since those games are the first supported through ScummVM & not planning to replay it any sooner. Might wanna follow your suggestion to check if it also produce stutters or not. Also dunno if I wanted to replay KQ5 & KQ6 any time sooner, especially since I just enjoyed Silver Lining which was also situated in Green Isles, the same as KQ6 settings.

Btw, I don't think Win7 has a sidebar AFAIK, Vista does though. And yes, it's been awhile since I defragged my drives.

Bloodbat · Post by **Bloodbat** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:19 pm

Yes, it has a sidebar, under gadgets, but if you don't miss it...why use it?

The thing is not only playing the talkie, but the talkie with MT-32 emulation, so, rather than suggesting games, I was suggesting tests

As for the defragging part, well, your rig in general will be happier if you do

*Update*: I just tested the talkie version with the latest SCUMMVM SVN build (at least as of right now) and I got no stuttering with MT-32 selected.

BobbinT · Post by **BobbinT** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:33 am

Eco Quest was also part of Sierra games and it does have MT32 driver.

As for Sidebar, I quote this from wikipedia:
"In Windows 7, Windows Sidebar was renamed Windows Desktop Gadgets, and the sidebar itself is not present."
Also, I have checked the Task Manager and didn't find any running Sidebar service.

As for the defragging, I would agree with you. It's just not really necessary for me right now.

Btw, what version of svn do you use?

Bloodbat · Post by **Bloodbat** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:36 pm

SVN 54931

The sidebar itself is not present...as a graphical element, but the executable itself remains sidebar.exe and the borders are still "sticky"

BobbinT · Post by **BobbinT** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:27 pm

whoa... my tracker id. 3136085 were closed while IMO still unresolved, claiming that my system weren't powerful enough?

Didn't I state many times that I can play other talkie games such as Eco Quest from start until finished?

Btw, I already downloaded the latest SVN again and the problem still remains.

This forced me to try the other talkie version. I'll post the results here just to make sure that I'm wrong or not about the condition of my rig. BTW, I'll only test games that still has the minimum requirements of AT-286.

md5 · Post by **md5** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:38 pm

BobbinT wrote:whoa... my tracker id. 3136085 were closed while IMO still unresolved, claiming that my system weren't powerful enough?

Didn't I state many times that I can play other talkie games such as Eco Quest from start until finished?

Btw, I already downloaded the latest SVN again and the problem still remains.

This forced me to try the other talkie version. I'll post the results here just to make sure that I'm wrong or not about the condition of my rig. BTW, I'll only test games that still has the minimum requirements of AT-286.

The MT-32 emulator is not optimized. The fact that your system can run other games is irrelevant. The code is NOT optimized, and is very slow. Development on the MT-32 emulator is happening, and large parts of it are being rewritten from scratch (separately from ScummVM, in the munt project). However, development on it is slow, and afaik the new version is still far from complete.

The fact that some games work correctly and some don't with the MT-32 emulator is because parts of it are slow and unoptimized, as mentioned. This isn't a problem with the SCI engine itself, it's a known issue with the munt MT-32 emulator and there is nothing we can do about it right now. Hence, I closed your ticket, since the MT-32 emulator works on my system, and since GM music is working properly on both mine and your system, the stuttering you're experiencing is most probably because of the WIP state of the munt emulator.

BobbinT · Post by **BobbinT** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:08 pm

hmmmm... I thought this problems occured on all talkie version of Sierra & LucasArts games like you guys keeps bragging all over. So I took the special liberty to test all talkie version that I owned (which I think I have all of it) and tested it with MT32 driver. Here goes:
1. Space Quest 4. Didn't stutter at all for about 20 minutes gameplay.
2. These games were stuttering at the opening movie/cutscenes, but surprisingly never stutter while in-game for about 10 minutes gameplay each:
-. King's Quest 5
-. King's Quest 6
-. Freddy Pharkas
3. LucasArts games such as Indy Fate of Atlantis, Days of the Tentacle, and Sam & Max plays voices very smoothly with MT32 driver.

The only games I haven't tested was Leisure Suit Larry 6 since I misplaced the CD somewhere until I find it. I also didn't test these Sierra talkie games since it was currently unsupported and had minimum requirements of AT-386, unless it was stated playable on the latest build (please confirm this):
- Gabriel Knight.
- Quest for Glory 4.
- Police Quest 4.
- All Sierra CD games which has higher minimum requirement such as Phantasmagoria and above.

Based on all that, I'm still not sure if MT32 Emulator is at fault completely. Especially since so far only "Dagger of Amon Ra" exhibit these problem quite bad, which is stuttering at all and any time and any places or event, while other Sierra talkie can play normally, save for several games which has stuttering only on the opening scenes.

I might try the other games talkie version I have that has MT32 option and supported with this emulator, though it will be much later, such as the Kyrandia trilogy or Simon the Sorcerer 1 & 2 for example.

edit:

Just tested Jones in the fast lane CD. For some reason the voice didn't play at all and only the BGM plays, either with MT32 or regular GM driver. This might need further investigation.

fingolfin · Post by **fingolfin** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:35 pm

Different games have different sound tracks. Different sound tracks make use of different features of the MT-32, or use the same features in different ways.
If one sound track happens to only exercise those part of the MT-32 which are sufficiently fast / well-implemented, then music will work fine. Another game might have a more sophisticated sound track, which uses features of the MT-32 which are not as well supported in the MT-32 emu resp. simply require a lot more CPU power.

Hence, it is not surprising to me to hear that some sound tracks play fine on your system and other don't.

Mind you, I don't claim to know whether the MT-32 emu is the cause for your problems or not, all I am saying is that your observations do not at all prove that it is "innocent"

.

md5 · Post by **md5** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:42 pm

If it is the MT-32 emulator indeed, then there's not much that can be done, unfortunately. There hasn't been a commit by kingguppy for 5 years now, so...
https://fisheye3.atlassian.com/committe ... /kingguppy

Mau1wurf1977 · Post by **Mau1wurf1977** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:51 pm

Just a thought...

I'm pretty sure that Eco Quest and Dagger of Amon Ra support General MIDI.

So I would just go with that option instead of MT-32 emulation which doesn't sounds like the real thing anyway.

md5 · Post by **md5** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:22 pm

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:Just a thought...

I'm pretty sure that Eco Quest and Dagger of Amon Ra support General MIDI.

So I would just go with that option instead of MT-32 emulation which doesn't sounds like the real thing anyway.

Eco Quest 1 was designed for MT-32 initially (at least the floppy version was, which was SCI1). The CD version was SCI1.1, I can't remember if that supported GM natively (i.e. without Sierra's after market MIDI support patch)

Mau1wurf1977 · Post by **Mau1wurf1977** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:26 pm

I believe that both games where composed on a MT-32...

Still GM could very well be better than using MT-32 emulation?

BobbinT · Post by **BobbinT** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:24 am

I already had my shared of salt and grain with General MIDI. And without greater MIDI banks, you only get generic instrument playing from the MIDIs. Even a much sophisticated MIDI banks still has missing effects here and there.

Roland had quite different case however. Even the emu quality already deliver much more richer experience to your ears.

I haven't continued Amon-Ra for awhile, since I'm also kinda waiting for the patch that could display both text and speech for the Sierra talkie games. Just recently had time to finish SQ4, and unfortunately the stuttering happens more often on later progresses, especially during long speeches. Guess md5 might be right after all, it takes more powerful processor to deliver without the stutters.

Kinda weird though that Eco Quest actually managed to be played until finished without any stutters. Maybe it has lighter requirements...

Mau1wurf1977 · Post by **Mau1wurf1977** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:49 pm

Well at least I can't stand the MT-32 emulation. I never had any speed issues (got an AMD quad core) but the quality is simply very poor. Nothing like a real MT-32.

For General MIDI there are a lot of options. Ideally a Virtual Sound Canvas which sounds just like the real thing.

A X-Fi card with SoundFonts is also fantastic.

To be honest I would rather play with Soundblaster / Adlib sound than with MT-32 emulation...