Quick question about Win KQ6 mouse pointers

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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envisaged0ne
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Post by envisaged0ne »

m_kiewitz, can you please explain the copyright infringement that would keep you from taking a snapshot of a game that ScummVM supports and not let you post that picture in the configuration setup? And how does it differ from the hundreds of screenshots you post on the ScummVM homepage, showing pics of the games running with the program?

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired »

Good point. Why is it illegal to distribute game screenshots? Or pieces of game screenshots?

So you don't think any of these artworks are at least decent?

Image
Image
Image

And they count because they're fangames that ScummVM supports. But anyway, what does it matter as long as it's an SCI image that is dithered/undithered showing the example. It's just as legit as a genuine Sierra image.

balpat
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Post by balpat »

Oh! Pretty! What game(s) are those?


First, let me begin by saying that adding support for Sierra-games might just be about one of the greatest things that ScummVM did. I even think ScummVM gets to a point where calling it just "ScummVM" just doesn't do this great program justice.

Personally, I see the undithering like a graphics filter (I know it isn't): I like 2xSAI best because it's combination of calculating the right color and slight blurring provides - in my opinion - the best upscaled graphics for most of these old games.

Still, it seems as if the crew of ScummVM think 2xHQ is the best one (judging by the fact they want all screenshots with that filter enabled). Personally, I think 2xHQ does too much guessing and provides a jittery unnatural picture.

However, that is my opinion. And thankfully, ScummVM lets me decide what I want. Thank you, ScummVM.

I think it should be the same for undithering. It's an option ScummVM provides that is not available in the original version. BUT you can enable it, if you want to.

Personally, I still don't know what I like more. I experimented with both modes and at the moment I tend to prefer the dithered graphics. They look softer and the colors just blend more into each other.


EDIT: Typos.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired »

balpat wrote:Oh! Pretty! What game(s) are those?
The first one is an arcade game called Aquarius, the second is a demo from a title called Legend of the Lost Jewel, the third is one of my own screens from my unfinished King's Quest II SCI remake. The first two are available at http://sciprogramming.com/ along with a list of other fangames.

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m_kiewitz
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Post by m_kiewitz »

envisaged0ne wrote:m_kiewitz, can you please explain the copyright infringement that would keep you from taking a snapshot of a game that ScummVM supports and not let you post that picture in the configuration setup?
I'm not a lawyer. Anyway, the 36-hour Lemmings iPhone "port" for example got a cease and desist order. Although he copied graphics, sounds and even the actual name - and he also tried to sell it.

Bleem for example got sued by Sony for just posting comparison screenshots on their website in 2000. In that case Bleem won, because the court saw this as fair use instead of copyright infrigment.

Anyway, I doubt that anyone in the ScummVM team wants to risk a lawsuit just to find out, what the court thinks about this case.

ffs. http://www.chillingeffects.org/copyright/faq.cgi#QID809
"Therefore, if one uses a screenshot of a copyrighted work without the proper license from the copyright holder, it is copyright infringement."
And how does it differ from the hundreds of screenshots you post on the ScummVM homepage, showing pics of the games running with the program?
I don't post any screenshots, sev does.
Anyway, I guess posting screenshots here falls under fair use. It's the same as with capturing footage for a review.

On the other side, copying photos or artwork and using them on your own website, may also be copyright infrigment.
Last edited by m_kiewitz on Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired »

I guess that includes using Graham as your forum avatar?

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m_kiewitz
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Post by m_kiewitz »

MusicallyInspired wrote:I guess that includes using Graham as your forum avatar?
Probably, although it got slightly modified from the original. But it may also include your screenshots. It may be just the wrong nickname in some countries as well.

Although in those cases most of the time noone cares.

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envisaged0ne
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Post by envisaged0ne »

So, you think that after posting hundreds of screenshots on ScummVM's homepage, and using avatars, and openly supporting the playing of the games through your program, that if you had screen captures in the program itself, they'd suddenly decide to sue you for copyright infringement? I'm sorry, not trying to be insulting here, but that doesn't make any sense at all. Just kinda want you to think this through.

Also, as far as Bleem is concerned, Sony didn't like that the program would allow you to play the PS1 games through your computer as long as you had the original disc. Then people wouldn't need to buy the actual playstation console anymore. They also claimed that Bleem was using original code without there permission. Sony filed multiple lawsuits and lost all of them.

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Post by Collector »

Why not just have the installer load a README on scummvm.org that had the examples? It should come under Fair Use as much as the screenshots on the home page or any of the copyrighted images on Wikipedia. An internet connection at that time should no longer be a issue. Most handheld devices can connect to the internet and many, if not most users, have an always on connection. It would make keeping the README up to date very easy.

Yes, many won't read the README, but if auto-loaded and the screenshots were right at the top of the page it could catch their attention. Many installers anymore do load a URL after they finish.

blueskirt
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Post by blueskirt »

One could argue that it would probably not work well for all devices that can run SCUMMVM, that not everyone is connected on the internet and that opening a browser or a readme file on install would probably bother some users.

Nah, I think the solution is alright as is. If you don't want to use possibly copyrights infringing screenshots, use a sample picture. If you don't want to use a sample picture on the basis that it wouldn't represent games accurately, one could argue that using a single screenshot from a game with 50+ wildly different backgrounds or so wouldn't be any more accurate. Then one could argue which of the 50+ backgrounds is the most representative for each and every single games... and it would never end.

A solution has been found, one that please both sides, all you need is a small picture that explains players what dithering is and how the undithering feature works, that is it. If none of the actual, original 16 colors dithered pictures floating on the internet fits, I'm sure it will be a pleasure for MusicallyInspired to dust his digital paintbrushes and paint you an entirely original one considering the alternative is to have one of the mode set by default without informing the users about the feature in question.

And I think this will be my last post on the subject, reading this discussion and finding a solution that pleases nearly everyone has been extremely fun, but seeing this solution undermined by nitpicks about the curtains' colors is slightly less.

Keep the good work, guys! I really look forward to play a couple of my favorite SCI0 games with the undithering feature on, now if only it was possible to access the Indy Quotient score page of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade in SCUMMVM so I don't have to run it in dosbox when I replay that game to get maximum score, that would be perfect.

Seldon
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Post by Seldon »

So from now on, everyone will demand notifications of any features available in ScummVM. Why not add screen advertising different filters? Or sound examples of different sound setups?
I think this is unnecessary bloat. The simpliest solution is alreadey available - the checkbox is just enough. The only doubt is the initial state of this control...
But I suppose this feature is likely to interest unexperienced users. The purists should be able to turn it off easily. Like myself.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired »

Undithering is not a filter. Should we turn all filters on by default too?

Seldon
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Post by Seldon »

MusicallyInspired wrote:Undithering is not a filter.
Where have I written so? I was refering to all different features enhancing (or should I say distorting?) original gameplay.
MusicallyInspired wrote:Should we turn all filters on by default too?
If you like. As for me, I don't really care. It's not THAT BIG problem to me. I can always turn them off. My <<ego>> doesn't prevent me to do so (but maybe that's because I'm able to type it <<LOWERCASE>>, the other way around it could be actually difficult, I can understand it) .

Tobis87
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Post by Tobis87 »

I like the undithering mode, but I don't care if it is on by default or not.

However I would like to see an additional undithering filter which would also filter the bitmaps. This would make it look constant.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired »

Seldon wrote:If you like. As for me, I don't really care. It's not THAT BIG problem to me. I can always turn them off. My <<ego>> doesn't prevent me to do so (but maybe that's because I'm able to type it <<LOWERCASE>>, the other way around it could be actually difficult, I can understand it) .
o_O

What are you talking about?

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