Last Crusade (Amiga version): Corrupt IQ points counter!

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adalsgaard
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Last Crusade (Amiga version): Corrupt IQ points counter!

Post by adalsgaard » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:18 am

I'm replaying Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade through WinUAE (Amiga simulator).

I've discovered that the IQ points counter is corrupt regarding points awarded for solving 2 puzzles:

1. error: The game gives you 15 IQ points for fighting (and beating) the guard in the alarm room (Castle Brunwald) but doesn't consider the puzzle solved any different than giving the guard Mein Kampf. Meaning: If you gave already solved the puzzle by giving the guard Mein Kampf, nothing will happen to your IQ series score fighting the guard (it's supposed to be worth 10 (unique) IQ points).

2. error: When escaping Castle Brunwald, the game gives you 25 IQ points for the escape, REGARDLESS of the circumstances (you're only supposed to get 25 IQ points for escaping if you escape the castle without getting tied up).

The first error makes it impossible to get the maximum series score (800 IQ points).

Now... I've tested this in SEVERAL versions of the game and the conclusion is that ALL Amiga versions have this bug. So far, nobody proved me wrong.

I'm in search of someone who knows
1) is the IQ points counter "fixable"?
2) (if fixable) how to actually correct the errors?

Best regards,
a VERY persistent Last Crusade fan.

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eriktorbjorn
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Re: Last Crusade (Amiga version): Corrupt IQ points counter!

Post by eriktorbjorn » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:52 pm

So you're saying the bug happens both in ScummVM and with WinUAE, but not in the DOS version?

I guess someone who has both versions could sit down and try to figure out which scripts are responsible, and how they differ.

adalsgaard
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Post by adalsgaard » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:27 pm

I've now tested the game playing it through ScummVM and the error is still there.

What do you mean by "the DOS version"? I only played it through WinUAE (and now ScummVM). The IQ points counter is corrupt in both environments.

Like you stated: Someone should locate the bug and correct it. Sadly, I have absolutely no skills in this area.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:32 pm

adalsgaard wrote:I've now tested the game playing it through ScummVM and the error is still there.
That's good, in a way. I wanted to make sure that it was a bug in the original game, not a bug in ScummVM itself.
adalsgaard wrote: What do you mean by "the DOS version"? I only played it through WinUAE (and now ScummVM). The IQ points counter is corrupt in both environments.
I meant the DOS version of the game. If it works in the DOS version of the game, but not in the Amiga version, that might simplify things. (If it works the same in the DOS and Amiga version, it would be tempting to call it a feature. :-)

adalsgaard
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Post by adalsgaard » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:58 am

So if I understand you correctly, by DOS version you mean PC DOS?

I've played the PC DOS version and it is without the mentioned errors.

I suppose the errors have happened producing the Amiga version of the game.

How can those errors be fixed?

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:22 am

adalsgaard wrote:So if I understand you correctly, by DOS version you mean PC DOS?

I've played the PC DOS version and it is without the mentioned errors.
Yes, that's what I meant.
adalsgaard wrote: I suppose the errors have happened producing the Amiga version of the game.

How can those errors be fixed?
I don't know. I don't have the Amiga version, and even if I did, tracking down script bugs can be a tedious process. If a script bug is found, it may be possible to detect when that part of the script is run and then to do something about it. That in itself can be tricky, so many of the workarounds in ScummVM are for potentially game-breaking bugs. For instance, if a certain action causes the game to hang or become unsolvable for no (to the player) apparent reason.

adalsgaard
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Post by adalsgaard » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:27 pm

What tools are needed in order to start this tedious process?

I suppose the room files (.lfl) are the ones to be corrected?

Again; if someone has experience with fixing bugs, I'll gladly provide the disks.

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Raziel
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Post by Raziel » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:54 pm

The problem is, as eriktorbjorn tried to point out, that this behaviour of
your game version doesn't break, halt, stop or crash anything.

eriktorbjorn is one of those magicians who knows how to fix these kind
of bugs, but as such, he also knows what a PITA it can be to do so.

End of Story: Your "bug" is not worth fixing given the sweat and tears
involved (at least not now)

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:22 pm

Raziel wrote: eriktorbjorn is one of those magicians who knows how to fix these kind of bugs
Sometimes. Other times, I've had to ask for help, or decided that it's not worth it. (This one may be a bit trickier than the ones I've looked at, since one of the issues described depends on things that happened earlier in the game.)

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icanntspell
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Post by icanntspell » Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:32 pm

I would set a breakpoint on the IQ value, restore a savegame before the incorrect points were assigned. Let the bug occur and determine the offending script. Decompile that script and try to find out the cause (perhaps compare it with the PC version).

If I can help, please let me know. Sounds like a challenge to fix this bug.

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JohnnyWalker2001
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Post by JohnnyWalker2001 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:18 pm

You should do it!

adalsgaard
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Post by adalsgaard » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:37 am

Raziel:
Whether something is worth fixing or not is a matter of opinion.

No one has ever completed Last Crusade 100% because of these errors (Amiga version). If that is not worth fixing, then what is?

icanntspell:
Please check your PM's.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:04 am

adalsgaard wrote: No one has ever completed Last Crusade 100% because of these errors (Amiga version). If that is not worth fixing, then what is?
Well, it's not worth it to me personally because it's a version I don't have, of a game I don't particularly like. ;)

But if you submit a patch, I'm sure it will be seriously considered.

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Raziel
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Post by Raziel » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:10 am

adalsgaard wrote:Raziel:
Whether something is worth fixing or not is a matter of opinion.
Sure it is.
I myself have repeatedly reported glitches i like to be taken care of.
Sometimes they are squashed in an hour, sometimes they need months to go away and in very few case they still stand.

You can't rush things unless you sit down yourself and do the work
No one has ever completed Last Crusade 100% because of these errors (Amiga version). If that is not worth fixing, then what is?
Fixing a bug that actually makes a game not completeable?

adalsgaard
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Post by adalsgaard » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:58 pm

[/quote]
Fixing a bug that actually makes a game not completeable?[/quote]

I think we have different views of the concept "completable". In my book, Last Crusade is not "completable". You would probably say it's just not "complete". Being VERY thorough, it's the same deal to me.

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