Monkey 1 Ultimate Talkie Edition (released)

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LogicDeLuxe
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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:42 pm

fingolfin wrote:Back to topic: It would be really interesting to know if ffmpeg can decode these files or not.
I didn't try myself, but I suspect it doesn't. We DO use ffmpeg to decode the sound files of MI2SE which uses different codecs, so there would be really no reason not to use it with MI1SE as well, except for incompatibility.
There was a long format discussion over at LucasForums
Btw. Monkey Island Explorer also needs xWMAencode to play the samples in question.

I don't think there is a reason for replacing SoX as suggested. It is GPL after all. I don't use it only to encode files, but also for editing, eg. trimming CD tracks, mixing some noises with voice files, dynamic processing for some out of place recordings. Also its resampling algorithm is one of the best available. (Which once lead someone to belief that the produced 8 bit monster.sou sounds too good to be real)

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Post by fingolfin » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:15 pm

LogicDeLuxe wrote:
fingolfin wrote:Back to topic: It would be really interesting to know if ffmpeg can decode these files or not.
I didn't try myself, but I suspect it doesn't. We DO use ffmpeg to decode the sound files of MI2SE which uses different codecs, so there would be really no reason not to use it with MI1SE as well, except for incompatibility.
There was a long format discussion over at LucasForums
Btw. Monkey Island Explorer also needs xWMAencode to play the samples in question.
Well, that's all just anecdotal evidence :). Why don't you (or anybody else with access to the relevant files) just try it? Seems much better than guessing :).
And even if it doesn't work, I wouldn't be surprised if the FFmpeg guys would be interested in adding support, which might benefit the whole community on the long run.

LogicDeLuxe wrote:I don't think there is a reason for replacing SoX as suggested. It is GPL after all. I don't use it only to encode files, but also for editing, eg. trimming CD tracks, mixing some noises with voice files, dynamic processing for some out of place recordings. Also its resampling algorithm is one of the best available. (Which once lead someone to belief that the produced 8 bit monster.sou sounds too good to be real)
I just was thinking that shipping and using a single ffmpeg utility is easier than shipping and using multiple tools, each doing a subset of what ffmpeg does (I think ffmpeg can do all the things you are using sox for, and more). Anyway, that just was my attempt to help you overcome the xWMA decoder bundling issue you have. Whether you try this route or not is of course totally up to you.

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Post by bgbennyboy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:26 pm

I could never find anything capable of decoding XWMA hence why I had to use xWMAencode in my tools. When I last checked (about 6 months ago) FFMPEG couldn't do it.

Most tools that claimed to be decoders just bundled xWMAencode with them. The only one that looked promising was this one. I emailed asking for info on the file format, but never got a reply.

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Scorched Earth
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Post by Scorched Earth » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:51 am

Hmmm... I haven't checked back in a while, but I see that this was never added after the tracker request was made.

I take it then that this isn't going to be merged into the main trunk? Is there fear of some type of legal issues being encountered?

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Post by fingolfin » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:50 am

bgbennyboy wrote:I could never find anything capable of decoding XWMA hence why I had to use xWMAencode in my tools. When I last checked (about 6 months ago) FFMPEG couldn't do it.

Most tools that claimed to be decoders just bundled xWMAencode with them. The only one that looked promising was this one. I emailed asking for info on the file format, but never got a reply.
In the meantime, I had an exchange with the guy who added WMA Pro support to FFmpeg. According to him, only WMA Pro 9 is supported, not 10. So WMA Pro 10 can be played back but not at full quality; I am not sure if that matters, though.
And xWMA is just WMA Pro data, *but* wrapped in a different file format, and FFmpeg indeed currently has no demuxer for that. However, if the MSDN pages on xWMA are right, then it shouldn't be very hard to implement such a demuxer.

Maybe somebody is interested in looking into adding this to FFmpeg?
For that matter, I am curious, too, and would love to peek at a test xWMA file; anybody know where to find some, ideally together with a reference WAV/MP3/OGG file? Alternatively, maybe somebody with Windows and that MS xWMA tool can take a short free .WAV, turn it into a xWMA file, and upload both somewhere?

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Post by fingolfin » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:52 am

Scorched Earth wrote:Hmmm... I haven't checked back in a while, but I see that this was never added after the tracker request was made.

I take it then that this isn't going to be merged into the main trunk? Is there fear of some type of legal issues being encountered?
I recommend that you take a look for yourself on the tracker item and the discussion there.

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Post by bgbennyboy » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:21 pm

fingolfin wrote: For that matter, I am curious, too, and would love to peek at a test xWMA file; anybody know where to find some, ideally together with a reference WAV/MP3/OGG file? Alternatively, maybe somebody with Windows and that MS xWMA tool can take a short free .WAV, turn it into a xWMA file, and upload both somewhere?


Here's the source wav

Encoded with the default target bitrate of 48000 here's the encoded file.

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Post by Leolo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:56 am

This patch being included in the official ScummVM, together with the renewed effort in the MT-32 emulator are both GREAT news!

If I've understood correctly, we will soon be able to choose the music for MI1 (CD tracks vs the upcoming faithful MT-32 emulation) independently from the speech with the official ScummVM?

In summary: either MT-32 music with or without speech, or CD tracks with or without speech. Is that correct?

Thanks!

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Post by fingolfin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:57 am

Leolo wrote:This patch being included in the official ScummVM, together with the renewed effort in the MT-32 emulator are both GREAT news!
Only, they aren't. Neither is the patch being included at this time, nor is the updated MT-32 emulator being included at this time. This *might* change, but as of now, it hasn't.
Leolo wrote:If I've understood correctly, we will soon be able to choose the music for MI1 (CD tracks vs the upcoming faithful MT-32 emulation) independently from the speech with the official ScummVM?

In summary: either MT-32 music with or without speech, or CD tracks with or without speech. Is that correct?
No.

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Post by fingolfin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:01 am

bgbennyboy wrote:Here's the source wav

Encoded with the default target bitrate of 48000 here's the encoded file.
Thanks! In the meantime, I managed to get xWMAEncode to run using wine, too, so I have enough data points to play a bit with this. A basic demuxer has been written, but it still produces semi-garbage output, mainly because I haven't yet fully understood how FFmpeg works internally ;).

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Post by fingolfin » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:59 pm

My FFmpeg patch now works sufficiently well to allow me to handle any xWMA files I have available. Only quirk is that the resulting files are slightly bigger than what xWMAEncode gives; it seems as if some extra silence is added to the end. Not yet sure why.
I also should implement parsing of the dpds "index table" contained in xWMA files.
It turns out that xWMA files (at least the ones I looked at) really contained WMA v2 data, not WMA Pro, as I was expecting. That confused me for a while, even though the fmt chunk in the files clearly indicated WMA v2. Well, you never know, it could have been lying... :).

I'll clean this up some more, then I can post this on github and maybe even submit it back to the ffmpeg folks.

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Post by Leolo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:55 pm

fingolfin wrote:No.
Wow, talk about curbing enthusiasm!

Ok, ok, I get the message: patience, little grasshopper ;)

Regards.

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Post by tsoliman » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:52 am

Leolo wrote: If I've understood correctly, we will soon be able to choose the music for MI1 (CD tracks vs the upcoming faithful MT-32 emulation) independently from the speech with the official ScummVM?

In summary: either MT-32 music with or without speech, or CD tracks with or without speech. Is that correct?
I cannot speak for the official scummvm. I have been tracking this fanpatch separately and have it working. The 2 options are either the new special edition soundtrack or the original CD sountrack. The special edition soundtrack seems far superior (but that's just my opinion, you already know which version you like more since you own MI1:SE and MI1 and an MT-32)

Regarding the "upcoming faithful MT-32 emulation": As has been mentioned before (to death), no need to be excited about the MT-32 emulation unless you actually own an MT-32.
No need to get excited about MI1:UTE unless you own MI1:SE.

You can also run the new MT-32 emulation separately as an audio driver and not wait for scummvm to integrate it.

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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:20 pm

tbaher wrote:The 2 options are either the new special edition soundtrack or the original CD sountrack.
There are more options: The Ultimate Talkie Edition also includes MT-32 midi, which are very similar to the floppy version, and Adlib, which is a conversion from the MT-32 tracks, thus sounding quite different to the floppy version. This was unavoidable due to different sound engines in SCUMM V4 and V5.

The main reason for the midi tracks was the DOS version, because the talkie extended executable does not support CD audio. However, you can play them in the fanpatched ScummVM as well by either using bootparm 10000 or just don't point it to the CD tracks.

Of course, if one day ScummVM includes the new MT-32 emulator and this fanpatch, there is no reason why it shouldn't work. Independently from that, you always can turn speech on and off as you like.

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Post by Leolo » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:05 pm

tbaher wrote:Regarding the "upcoming faithful MT-32 emulation": As has been mentioned before (to death), no need to be excited about the MT-32 emulation unless you actually own an MT-32.
No need to get excited about MI1:UTE unless you own MI1:SE.

You can also run the new MT-32 emulation separately as an audio driver and not wait for scummvm to integrate it.
I bought MI1 CD version ages ago, and I also bought the Steam Special Edition version recently. However, I do not own the floppy version. And I haven't been able to buy an MT-32 either (though I've tried several times on ebay).

For me it would be exciting to discover how does the MT-32 music sound (I've already watched some intros on youtube out of curiosity, but that's all).

What I was hoping was to be able to choose the MIDI music, together with the new and improved MT-32 emulator, without having to purchase the game YET again!

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