Tandy sound quality in AGI games

Ask for help with ScummVM problems

Moderator: ScummVM Team

User avatar
almeath
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: Australia

Tandy sound quality in AGI games

Post by almeath »

I have noticed an apparent problem with Tandy sound emulation in some AGI games, especially the DOS version of King's Quest 2. I have tested this in ScummVM 1.6 through 2.0 in macOS and I get the same results.

When compared to DOSBox, there is significant background noise or hissing, particularly during the introduction music to King's Quest 2. Certain sound effects are also distorted, such as the waves in the first scene.

In DOSBox I can get perfect Tandy sound with no hissing by setting the output to 49716 hz, but in ScummVM changing the output has no audible effect.

Is there anything else I can do with the settings to improve the quality of the Tandy sound, or is this a known limitation with the current emulator?
User avatar
envisaged0ne
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:17 am
Location: United States

Post by envisaged0ne »

I just played the DOS version of KQ2,using the latest ScummVM daily snapshot, and the Tandy sounds sound perfectly fine to me. I went back and forth several times (about 4 times) between DOSBox & ScummVM, and honestly couldn't tell the difference. Both sounded nice and clear
User avatar
tsoliman
ScummVM Developer
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: USA

Post by tsoliman »

What OS are you both using?
User avatar
almeath
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: Australia

Post by almeath »

I am using the latest version of macOS - 10.13.6

This is how it sounds in DOSBox:

http://userweb.eftel.com/~almeath/mac/kq2_dosbox.mp3

Compared to ScummVM 2.0:

http://userweb.eftel.com/~almeath/mac/kq2_scummvm.mp3

A noticeable amount of extra hissing or static in the ScummVM playback.

That is why I thought this had something to do with the output setting, but unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. It actually sounds like it is being played back at 22050 or lower, but I experienced no difference when manually setting it to 44100.

I will try with the latest SVN build to see if there is any improvement.
User avatar
tsoliman
ScummVM Developer
Posts: 404
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: USA

Post by tsoliman »

I couldn't hear the difference until I put on earbuds.

I can confirm that the latest (self-compiled) sounds like the ScummVM 2.0 clip that almeath posted.
User avatar
envisaged0ne
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:17 am
Location: United States

Post by envisaged0ne »

I'm using Windows 10. I can hear the difference in his mp3 samples, but again I don't hear a difference when I play them through ScummVM or DOSBox. Maybe it's not a problem in the Windows port
User avatar
almeath
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: Australia

Post by almeath »

It happens across the board with all the AGI games, and I have tested it in both the macOS and Windows builds. Speaker configuration or quality might make the issue more or less noticeable. I have not found any settings adjustments that will help.

It seems that the Tandy / PCjr sound output in ScummVM is just a bit noiser than the DOSBox equivalent. I am not sure why this would be the case but I presume the underlying sound emulators are different.

I wish I had a real Tandy system to hear which one is more authentic.
User avatar
Chilly Willy
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:27 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Chilly Willy »

I have a Tandy 1000 HX. Maybe I can hook the output of my Tandy to my input of my PC and record something later tonight.
User avatar
Chilly Willy
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:27 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Chilly Willy »

I went ahead and dropped what I was doing and recorded it from my Tandy 1000 HX.

http://www.posemotion.com/audio/KQ2_Tandy_1000_HX.mp3
http://www.posemotion.com/audio/KQ2_Tandy_1000_HX.wav

As you can hear. Neither one is 100% correct. The DOSBox versions notes are too rolled or smooth. ScummVM is the closet between the two. Plus listen to the ending of that tune. It chops up a bit on a real machine.

Now lets look at the recordings. Both (ScummVM & Tandy 1000) recorded with peaks not exceeding -1 to -2 db. ScummVM at the top and the Tandy 1000 at the bottom. As you can see, ScummVM leaves no room for dynamics and is literally screaming. Therefor, has harsh sounding audio.

I did not post my ScummVM recording here as it is in another post by almeath, five post above.

Image
User avatar
almeath
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: Australia

Post by almeath »

Chilly Willy wrote:Now lets look at the recordings. Both (ScummVM & Tandy 1000) recorded with peaks not exceeding -1 to -2 db. ScummVM at the top and the Tandy 1000 at the bottom. As you can see, ScummVM leaves no room for dynamics and is literally screaming. Therefor, has harsh sounding audio.
Thanks for performing those tests. Very interesting findings.

Yes, I agree that the ScummVM emulation sounds closer to the real thing, and seems to fix a few glitches too. It is just a pity about the harshness of the output. Perhaps there is a way to address that in future releases. However, I do not know if that is a part of the code that is being actively looked at by anyone? I suppose it is a niche area of interest, but for the sake of posterity it would be great to see it addressed.
User avatar
Chilly Willy
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:27 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Chilly Willy »

almeath wrote:
Thanks for performing those tests. Very interesting findings.
No problem. ;)

I guess it should be reported so that they can fix it. It appears that maybe there's just a gain/compression issue on the output audio. Maybe just set too high?
User avatar
almeath
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:40 pm
Location: Australia

Post by almeath »

Alright then, I will report it.
User avatar
Chilly Willy
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:27 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Chilly Willy »

almeath wrote:Alright then, I will report it.
:wink:
filipetolhuizen
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:18 am

Re: Tandy sound quality in AGI games

Post by filipetolhuizen »

SDL 2.0.6, 2.0.7 and 2.0.8 had severe sound issues as well. 2.0.9 fixed all the stuttering and hissing that were not related to specific hardware emulation.
User avatar
CaptainJei
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:57 am

Re: Tandy sound quality in AGI games

Post by CaptainJei »

filipetolhuizen wrote: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:00 pm SDL 2.0.6, 2.0.7 and 2.0.8 had severe sound issues as well. 2.0.9 fixed all the stuttering and hissing that were not related to specific hardware emulation.
Oh, thank god. Everything sounds great again!
Post Reply