Monkey Island 2 Music Problem

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leagues11
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Monkey Island 2 Music Problem

Post by leagues11 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:15 am

So I've downloaded scummvm quick and easy, got Monkey Island 2 and the music working fine, but overall the music is really... well... crap. I know that MI2 had a really nice opening theme but instead I'm getting this MIDI computer-reproduced crap. What happened to the pipes, and other instruments?

Can I tamper with the scummvm options in some way to get the music sounding like it originally did?

The funny thing is, that if I try to run it NORMALLY (without scummvm) it all works fine, but there isn't any music whatsoever. Even stranger is the fact that Monkey Island 1 works perfectly on my PC without any alterations.

I'm playing the Monnkey Island Madness disc (double CD), by the way.

clem
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Re: Monkey Island 2 Music Problem

Post by clem » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:22 am

leagues11 wrote:So I've downloaded scummvm quick and easy, got Monkey Island 2 and the music working fine, but overall the music is really... well... crap. I know that MI2 had a really nice opening theme but instead I'm getting this MIDI computer-reproduced crap. What happened to the pipes, and other instruments?

Can I tamper with the scummvm options in some way to get the music sounding like it originally did?

The funny thing is, that if I try to run it NORMALLY (without scummvm) it all works fine, but there isn't any music whatsoever. Even stranger is the fact that Monkey Island 1 works perfectly on my PC without any alterations.

I'm playing the Monnkey Island Madness disc (double CD), by the way.
Monkey Island 2 uses midi, that's why you don't get any sound in XP normally (I think there's some utility to let DOS games play midi music though)
The CD version of Monkey Island 1 uses CD audio, that's why you get (hiqh quality) music

As for the "crap", I'm not sure if that ever sounded better - maybe you could try using the MT32 emu, but that would require you to buy an MT32

leagues11
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Re: Monkey Island 2 Music Problem

Post by leagues11 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:26 am

clem wrote:Monkey Island 2 uses midi, that's why you don't get any sound in XP normally (I think there's some utility to let DOS games play midi music though)
The CD version of Monkey Island 1 uses CD audio, that's why you get (hiqh quality) music

As for the "crap", I'm not sure if that ever sounded better - maybe you could try using the MT32 emu, but that would require you to buy an MT32
Hah, maybe I was a bit harsh, it's still okay but I've heard the original music and it's MUCH better.

So is there any chance of getting the "high quality" music working with MI2?

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LogicDeLuxe
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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:41 am

Select native MIDI. The quality should be as high as your wavetable is.

leagues11
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Post by leagues11 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:54 am

Is it the sound mode MIDI with the native-mt32 option? It sounds better.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:34 pm

leagues11 wrote:Is it the sound mode MIDI with the native-mt32 option? It sounds better.
I could be wrong about this, but here's how I understand things:

The PC version of Monkey Island 2 has at least two different versions of each piece of music: Adlib and MT-32. (Some of the music has PC speaker versions, as well, but ScummVM doesn't know how to play it.)

The Adlib music is played through an Adlib emulator which should produce sound that is pretty close to how it sounded on that original hardware most of the time.

The MT-32 music is played as MIDI, so it will sound differently depending on your MIDI hardware (or software emulation). However, the MT-32 does not behave quite like General MIDI. Most noticeably, the instrument set is different -- in addition, I believe you could define your own custom instruments -- so ScummVM will normally try to map the MT-32 instruments to hopefully sensible GM instruments. Unless you tell ScummVM that you are indeed using real MT-32, or something close enough. There's some information about that in the README file.

So at least on my SoundBlaster Live! enabling native MT-32 mode is a bad idea, because at best it will sound strange. At worst, it will sound horrible. In fact, for Monkey Island 2 I rarely bother with MIDI at all, since I think the Adlib music sounds so nice.

leagues11
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Post by leagues11 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:11 am

Adlib? It sounds unbelievably strange. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to computers so don't talk about anything too complicated.

joachimeberhard
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Post by joachimeberhard » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:30 am

eriktorbjorn wrote:In fact, for Monkey Island 2 I rarely bother with MIDI at all, since I think the Adlib music sounds so nice.
Now there's someone who shares my feelings. :D

Even though I have a real MT-32, which still sounds a bit better than the EMU+ROM-Files, I must admit that the AdLib music for MI2 and Indy4 sounds WAY more alive&kicking.

It simply has more heart, more feeling than the sterile MT-32 music from LucasArts.

LucasArts *never* reached the quality and professionalism of the really outstanding performance Sierra reached with the MT-32.

You notice this when you start a Sierra game on DOS with an MT-32: It preloads custom sounds for minutes.
LucasArts games rarely do that, thus they never used the true capacity of the MT-32, and their music sounds in fact very sterile and cold.

That's the way I see it, and anyone with a real MT-32 and DOS can possibly approve to this: When it comes to LucasArts (except Loom), they never had good MT-32 usage and music.

leagues11
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Post by leagues11 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:46 am

So... I should use Adlib?

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Kaminari
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Post by Kaminari » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:42 pm

joachimeberhard wrote:When it comes to LucasArts (except Loom), they never had good MT-32 usage and music.
Funny because I think the other way around: Loom's MT-32 support truly sucks while MI2 is a lively soundtrack.
leagues11 wrote:So... I should use Adlib?
Yes.

joachimeberhard
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Post by joachimeberhard » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:25 pm

There is also one noticable outstander: SamNMax - it uses General Midi internally, thus it produces the best music with either Windows Midi, a real Midi card or a good Soft-Synth.

Neither AdLib nor the MT-32 are truely General Midi capable, so they're suboptimal for SamNMax.

Dig, Ft and Comi AFAIK use Digital music, so Midi is no issue there.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:27 pm

leagues11 wrote:So... I should use Adlib?
You should use whatever sounds best to you, of course. :-)

The Adlib music is completely synthesized, so it's always going to sound rather artificial compared to MIDI. I think it sounds nice for some games, but I can't make up your mind for you, can I?

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LogicDeLuxe
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Post by LogicDeLuxe » Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:24 pm

Imho, MI2 did the MT32 part very well. It just needed a few custom sounds, because the standard sounds just fit the soundtrack as they are. You can hardly measure the quality by the number of custom sounds.
Btw. Loom does not use custom sounds at all.

I never liked the Adlib sound much. However MI2 has the best Adlib soundtrack I've ever heard, though not as great as the MT32 version.

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