Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

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Timar
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Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by Timar »

I'm running the current SVN build on Windows 7 x64. Somehow MIDI does only work with the 32bit build - when I try to use the 64bit build, I can't select any device and all games will fall back to Adlib music.

I have another issue with the 32bit build, however. I can't select a specific device for a single game. In the general options panel all MIDI devices are listed, but when I want to choose a different device for a certain game (on the "edit game" panel), the device list is grayed out.

AFAIK ScummVM will always prefer General MIDI if a game supports it. Some games however, like Lands of Lore, have superior music for the MT-32, so I'd really like to specify for those games to use the MT-32 only...

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LordHoto
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Re: Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by LordHoto »

Timar wrote:AFAIK ScummVM will always prefer General MIDI if a game supports it. Some games however, like Lands of Lore, have superior music for the MT-32, so I'd really like to specify for those games to use the MT-32 only...
In fact I doubt Lands of Lore has better MT-32 music than GM music. Like Hand of Fate Lands of Lore contains both MT-32 and GM music tracs and for Hand of Fate the GM music tracks had more instruments/channels used IIRC. So I would guess the situation for Lands of Lore should be somewhat similar.

In any case you should try an up to date build, there had been some breakage in the output configuration GUI. Those issues have been resolved a few days ago.

Timar
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Re: Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by Timar »

LordHoto wrote:In fact I doubt Lands of Lore has better MT-32 music than GM music. Like Hand of Fate Lands of Lore contains both MT-32 and GM music tracs and for Hand of Fate the GM music tracks had more instruments/channels used IIRC. So I would guess the situation for Lands of Lore should be somewhat similar.
Well, certainly this is subjective, but for me it sounds way better on the MT-32 than on a GM soundfont synthesizer.
In any case you should try an up to date build, there had been some breakage in the output configuration GUI. Those issues have been resolved a few days ago.
I got the latest win32 build - now on the MIDI-tab for the individual game the "Override global MIDI settings" checkbox is greyed out too. On the MT-32 tab however, the "Override global MT-32 settings" is not greyed out, but the device selection drop-down still is :(

Edit: I just noticed that LOL doesn't seem to have native MT-32 support with ScummVM. If I set the general options to "Don't use General MIDI" on the MIDI device selection, and the MT-32 on the device selection on the MT-32 tab, all I hear is Adlib music. The MT-32 only works when I select it on the MIDI tab, but I guess not in native mode but only as as a GM device - sounds much better nontheless* ;)

Btw - is there any way other than this to tell whether a specific game makes use of the MT-32 or of the GM device if both are present (in other words, if I select the MT-32 for both MIDI and MT-32 support, how do I know the latter is beeing used)?

*probably because it was composed on a MT-32 or a similar Roland device?

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tsoliman
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Re: Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by tsoliman »

Timar wrote:
LordHoto wrote:In fact I doubt Lands of Lore has better MT-32 music than GM music. Like Hand of Fate Lands of Lore contains both MT-32 and GM music tracs and for Hand of Fate the GM music tracks had more instruments/channels used IIRC. So I would guess the situation for Lands of Lore should be somewhat similar.
Well, certainly this is subjective, but for me it sounds way better on the MT-32 than on a GM soundfont synthesizer.
Have you tried it on an SC-55? :P

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LordHoto
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Re: Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by LordHoto »

Timar wrote:
LordHoto wrote:In fact I doubt Lands of Lore has better MT-32 music than GM music. Like Hand of Fate Lands of Lore contains both MT-32 and GM music tracs and for Hand of Fate the GM music tracks had more instruments/channels used IIRC. So I would guess the situation for Lands of Lore should be somewhat similar.
Well, certainly this is subjective, but for me it sounds way better on the MT-32 than on a GM soundfont synthesizer.
In any case you should try an up to date build, there had been some breakage in the output configuration GUI. Those issues have been resolved a few days ago.
I got the latest win32 build - now on the MIDI-tab for the individual game the "Override global MIDI settings" checkbox is greyed out too. On the MT-32 tab however, the "Override global MT-32 settings" is not greyed out, but the device selection drop-down still is :(

Edit: I just noticed that LOL doesn't seem to have native MT-32 support with ScummVM. If I set the general options to "Don't use General MIDI" on the MIDI device selection, and the MT-32 on the device selection on the MT-32 tab, all I hear is Adlib music. The MT-32 only works when I select it on the MIDI tab, but I guess not in native mode but only as as a GM device - sounds much better nontheless* ;)

Btw - is there any way other than this to tell whether a specific game makes use of the MT-32 or of the GM device if both are present (in other words, if I select the MT-32 for both MIDI and MT-32 support, how do I know the latter is beeing used)?

*probably because it was composed on a MT-32 or a similar Roland device?
The way to setup an audio device is to set "Music Device" in the "Audio" tab to the device you want to use. If you want to furthermore use a MT-32 connected to your computer you need to set "True Roland MT-32 (disable GM emulation)" in the "MT-32" tab.

The devices in the "MIDI" and "MT-32" tab are only used by some games when you have set the "Music device" in the "Audio" tab to "<default>". Some prefer either GM or MT-32 by default (instead of AdLib or similar), thus it will select the specified devices from those boxes when such a game is run with "Music Device" set to "<default>".

Timar
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Re: Issues with MIDI configuration on Windows 7

Post by Timar »

tsoliman wrote:Have you tried it on an SC-55? :P
No, but I guess it will sound great. Do you know whether the Virtrual Sound Canvas runs on Windows 7 x64?
LordHoto wrote: The way to setup an audio device is to set "Music Device" in the "Audio" tab to the device you want to use. If you want to furthermore use a MT-32 connected to your computer you need to set "True Roland MT-32 (disable GM emulation)" in the "MT-32" tab.

The devices in the "MIDI" and "MT-32" tab are only used by some games when you have set the "Music device" in the "Audio" tab to "<default>". Some prefer either GM or MT-32 by default (instead of AdLib or similar), thus it will select the specified devices from those boxes when such a game is run with "Music Device" set to "<default>".
Ok, now I got it, thank you. Although these changes to the interface make sense to me now, the split of the device selection between the Audio, MIDI and MT-32 tabs is far from beeing self-explanatory, so the manual really should be updated once 1.4 is beeing released.

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envisaged0ne
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Post by envisaged0ne »

All I have to do is set the audio section to use my MT-32. I don't have to mess with the MT-32 tab at all. Dunno why it was so complicated for you, but for me it couldn't have been easier, & very easy to figure out. I'm using 32 bit Win7. Maybe it's more difficult for 64 bit users

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LordHoto
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Post by LordHoto »

envisaged0ne wrote:All I have to do is set the audio section to use my MT-32. I don't have to mess with the MT-32 tab at all. Dunno why it was so complicated for you, but for me it couldn't have been easier, & very easy to figure out. I'm using 32 bit Win7. Maybe it's more difficult for 64 bit users
No it's the same for 32bit and 64bit. In any case you need to enable "True Roland MT-32" mode in the MT-32 tab in case you are using a real MT-32 and not the builtin emulator, otherwise ScummVM will assume you have an GM device and thus the sound should be off.
Timar wrote:Ok, now I got it, thank you. Although these changes to the interface make sense to me now, the split of the device selection between the Audio, MIDI and MT-32 tabs is far from beeing self-explanatory, so the manual really should be updated once 1.4 is beeing released.
Edit/Delete this post
If you would like to contribute to the manual you are free to do that. Would be nice to have it a bit more up to date.

Timar
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Post by Timar »

envisaged0ne wrote:All I have to do is set the audio section to use my MT-32. I don't have to mess with the MT-32 tab at all. Dunno why it was so complicated for you, but for me it couldn't have been easier, & very easy to figure out. I'm using 32 bit Win7. Maybe it's more difficult for 64 bit users
It was easy for you probably because you weren't familiar with the interface of previous ScummVM versions, in which the audio/MIDI setup worked quite differently and you couldn't select a device on the audio page.

In any case, it's far from beeing self-explanatory because noone intuitively understands why you should select a MIDI device on the audio tab and then two more times on the MIDI and MT-32 tabs.
LordHoto wrote: If you would like to contribute to the manual you are free to do that. Would be nice to have it a bit more up to date.
If I find some time, I'll do that.

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LordHoto
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Post by LordHoto »

Timar wrote:It was easy for you probably because you weren't familiar with the interface of previous ScummVM versions, in which the audio/MIDI setup worked quite differently and you couldn't select a device on the audio page.
I am not sure what ScummVM version you are talking about, but all versions I can remember right now had the device/output selection in the "Audio" page. The wiki still has a picture of the 1.0.0 version line and as you can see the device selection is in the "Audio" tab.

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envisaged0ne
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Post by envisaged0ne »

I was going to say, I've been using ScummVM FOREVER and never remembered it really being much different. I also have a very old version still, just never use it.

Dunno why for me, but I don't have to check anything in the MT-32 tab section for ScummVM to use my MT-32 correctly. From the audio tab, I just choose the Yamaha midi-usb cable attached to the MT-32 and it works fine. All music sounds perfect. If I check the boxes in the MT-32 tab, it still sounds perfect. So it doesn't really make a difference one way or the other for me.

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tsoliman
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Post by tsoliman »

envisaged0ne wrote:From the audio tab, I just choose the Yamaha midi-usb cable attached to the MT-32 and it works fine. All music sounds perfect. If I check the boxes in the MT-32 tab, it still sounds perfect. So it doesn't really make a difference one way or the other for me.
If I don't check "True Roland MT-32" when picking my USB midi cable in the audio tab, the stuff going to the midi cable is GM data not MT-32 data. Even if the game doesn't support GM, (e.g. some SCI stuff) the data is being converted to GM and then sent through the wire (with a warning in the text console saying the conversion is an approximation and that the game doesn't support GM)

I don't know if this changed recently, but that's my experience with this checkbox.

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