Thoughts on the App Store (2)

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Robo-X
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Thoughts on the App Store (2)

Post by Robo-X »

Apple has changed the 3.3.2 section of EULA which was one of the biggest reason stopping ScummVM iPhone/iPad project to happen. It should now be able to get ScummVM app approved in the App Store. I hope the developers here reconsider and create an official version of ScummVM.

New EULA section explained by appleoutsider. http://www.appleoutsider.com/2010/06/10/hello-lua/

I guess iPhone 4 will be even more difficult to jailbreak iPhone 3GS was.

//Rob

PS. The original thread was locked just a few days before WWDC started where Apple announced the changes.

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Graxer
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Post by Graxer »

Sounds hopeful. It would still need permission from Apple though. And a way to transfer games to the iPhone.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn »

I don't know. Even with the revisions, does it really apply to ScummVM? I don't see how the code ScummVM interprets could ever be described as "providing minor features" (emphasis added), and wouldn't "embedded" mean that it has to be a part of ScummVM itself? If so, wouldn't that rule out most of the supported games?

Then again, I'm no license lawyer.

jvprat
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Post by jvprat »

eriktorbjorn wrote:I don't see how the code ScummVM interprets could ever be described as "providing minor features" (emphasis added), and wouldn't "embedded" mean that it has to be a part of ScummVM itself? If so, wouldn't that rule out most of the supported games?
The sentence where it appears is "if such use is solely for providing minor features or functionality that are consistent with the intended and advertised purpose of the Application." (emphasis added too)

It looks like what they don't want is applications providing major features through interpreted code without letting the user know about it. Since ScummVM is "advertised" as a VM I think it could apply. Anyway it would require Apple's written approval, but at least it's now described as a possibility, while this option wasn't available before.
eriktorbjorn wrote:Then again, I'm no license lawyer.
Same here ;)

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn »

jvprat wrote: The sentence where it appears is "if such use is solely for providing minor features or functionality that are consistent with the intended and advertised purpose of the Application." (emphasis added too)
I read that as "minor (functions or functionality)", but maybe I should have read it as "(minor functions) or functionality". :)

jvprat
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Post by jvprat »

eriktorbjorn wrote:
jvprat wrote: The sentence where it appears is "if such use is solely for providing minor features or functionality that are consistent with the intended and advertised purpose of the Application." (emphasis added too)
I read that as "minor (functions or functionality)", but maybe I should have read it as "(minor functions) or functionality". :)
Bah, natural language is too ambiguous, even when written by lawyers :P

wfeltmate
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I think it is worth asking

Post by wfeltmate »

Well, in the end, it is worth asking for the permission from Apple. What is the worst that they could do; say no? Even if they don't give you the approval, there is no loss to ScummVM.

fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin »

I am not a lawyer either, but was involved in law suits involving licensing issues, including the GPL, and have some extensive knowledge on it. I know the GPL quite well, and I have good knowledge of the English language. I studied logic (being a mathematician). Finally, my common sense is good good, I think ;).

And all these together tell me that this EULA change means *nothing*, and changes nothing.

First and foremost, the Apple AppStore terms are fundamentally incompatible with the GPL -- see http://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
So strictly speaking, no GPL app can be distributed via the AppStore, unless its developers allow so (by dual-/multi-licensing their app). Of course there are quite some GPL apps on the AppStore, but they are just there because apparently none of the rights owners were interested enough in persecuting the violation. The changed clause does not touch this matter in any way.

Secondly, ScummVM does not run *embedded* interpreted code, only external interpreted code. Thus, the offer to get an exception for running interpreted code from Apple does not apply to us.


None of this is ambiguous, and you don't even need to be a lawyer to know that.

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Vinterstum
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Post by Vinterstum »

fingolfin wrote: Secondly, ScummVM does not run *embedded* interpreted code, only external interpreted code. Thus, the offer to get an exception for running interpreted code from Apple does not apply to us.
GPL issue aside, Apple refers to "embedded" in terms of the application here, and not the executable. So the offer would apply for cases of free games being bundled with ScummVM, for example.

fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin »

Yeah, I guess if one ignores the GPL, then one can bundle ScummVM with the free games -- but I wasn't really thinking about that or referring to that -- most people want to use ScummVm with arbitrary games, not special versions bundled to a single game. And that's still out of the question.

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pankratz
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Post by pankratz »

1. I am very suprised to see Simon the Sorcerer in the AppStore. The Author inform the customers that his port uses ScummVM under the GPL........

2. Just yesterday I bought my second app, which allow me to get my files on the iPad/iPhone. It works like that: http://imemento.bplaced.net/en_faq_nav.html#upload

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pankratz
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Post by pankratz »

Am I the only one? ;-)

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn »

pankratz wrote:1. I am very suprised to see Simon the Sorcerer in the AppStore. The Author inform the customers that his port uses ScummVM under the GPL........
I assumed they distribute ScummVM under the GPL, and Simon the Sorcerer under agreement with Adventure Soft. (At least, the Adventure Soft web page has an iPhSoft banner, which I took as an endorsement.) That much shouldn't be any different from the other cases where ScummVM is included with a commercially sold game. I haven't bothered to read the AppStore terms of use though.

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buckely
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Post by buckely »

I just noticed something with my copy of Beneath a Steel Sky for the iphone. it shows up in itunes under file sharing. There are a few files associated with it and there is an option where i can add more. This file sharing feature is also used for docstogo and comiczeal. could this be used add our own games to an official ScummVM Iphone App?

fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin »

No. It. Would. Be. Illegal.

Please, let's not rehash this again and again, we explained this often enough.

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