Thoughts on the App Store

Subforum for discussion and help with ScummVM's iPhone port

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fingolfin
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Post by fingolfin »

Well, it certainly wouldn't hurt to add a new entry to the FAQ "Why there is no AppStore version of ScummVM for the iPhone". Somebody has write that, of course, and it better be well-written or else it will just draw even more people to question it ;).

ovvldc
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Post by ovvldc »

Interestingly, Apple has approved a Commodore 64 emulator for an iPhone app.

The makers had to remove the BASIC interpreter as it allowed for the running of arbitrary code, but it does have a built-in store of some kind.

I'm not saying the ScummVM crew should now jump on making a formal iPhone app, but this C64 app implies that most of the difficulties that I have seen discussed can be circumvented.

best wishes,
Oscar

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Vinterstum
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Post by Vinterstum »

ovvldc wrote: I'm not saying the ScummVM crew should now jump on making a formal iPhone app, but this C64 app implies that most of the difficulties that I have seen discussed can be circumvented.
Not really. The difficulty is Apple's EULA. As we've seen before with Frotz, it's definitely been possible for apps like this to be let through. That doesn't change the fact that it's not legal under the current EULA, unfortunately (Unless it's changed recently).

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rotane
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Post by rotane »

And, it's gone again. Exactly because of the BASIC interpreter that was only disabled (and not removed) and could easily be enabled again with a trick.

http://toucharcade.com/2009/09/08/c64-e ... r-release/

Galawyn
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Post by Galawyn »

You proposed some issues that could block development of iPhone porting of ScummVM. I would try to arguments them.

* auto save on app close / phone call received and so on:
You told could be problematic because status of the game is a big file, let see Monkey Island iPhone porting, it's working!

* difficult or impossible to add new game in the repository:
Think about ebook reader Stanza:
It's come with 1 ebook. But you could:
From iPhone, download an ebook from Gutenberg project or similar, download/buy ebook from stores, download from a custom server.
From Stanza desktop (pc), open a ebook (PDF, txt, doc, lit...) and transfer it to your iPhone.

Another example: Docs to go. You have your desktop client that transfer documents to your iPhone.

* disapprove from Apple:
Ok this is tricky, Apple reviews on application are quite a random stuff.
But I think that proibition on VMs is not more enabled, because there is (was/will be) in AppStore application for emulate c64.
Actually it was blocked only because developers added basic compilation, and user could extend the application writing basic code on it. They removed (hidden it) this feature and the application was accepted, until Apple found that still contains it, and removed from AppStore.

* iScummVM price
I think that ScummVM fan could spend 4-7-10 € for their beloved application

Ok, sorry if I forgot some other technical issues or difficulties, I never developed an iPhone app (I don't have a mac :( ) but I heard you have just developed a jailbroken iPhone version.

Now I'm asking (without start a flame) what issues could block the porting of ScummVM on AppStore?

Thanks

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Chiffa
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Post by Chiffa »

* auto save on app close / phone call received and so on:
You told could be problematic because status of the game is a big file, let see Monkey Island iPhone porting, it's working!
I would note that there are a lot of games on the AppStore which do not enforce this rule (as I found out while playing a number of recent releases like Dungeon Hunter or Elven Chronicles) therefore this can be skipped.

Regarding all other stuff, I have already offered these same thoughts and as I understand the problem is that the iPhone port developer doesn't want to spend time on Apple with putting the ScummVM engine officially out on the AppStore.

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md5
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Post by md5 »

Chiffa wrote:
* auto save on app close / phone call received and so on:
You told could be problematic because status of the game is a big file, let see Monkey Island iPhone porting, it's working!
I would note that there are a lot of games on the AppStore which do not enforce this rule (as I found out while playing a number of recent releases like Dungeon Hunter or Elven Chronicles) therefore this can be skipped.

Regarding all other stuff, I have already offered these same thoughts and as I understand the problem is that the iPhone port developer doesn't want to spend time on Apple with putting the ScummVM engine officially out on the AppStore.
Was that what you understood from this thread? Really? O_o Then read the thread again

There is no way to copy game data files to non-jailbroken phones. This means that ScummVM will need to come bundled with game files in AppStore. Which means that we will need to get license from game companies to sell their products for a profit. Not going to happen.

Plus, as mentioned already, the main problem is Apple's EULA. Bending the rules does not mean that they don't exist in the EULA. Go ask them for the reason, not us.
Last edited by md5 on Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rotane
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Post by rotane »

md5 wrote:There is no way to copy game data files to non-jailbroken phones.
To add on that, this is not a technical issue. It is restricted by Apple, as stated in their EULA.

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Mort
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Post by Mort »

md5 wrote:There is no way to copy game data files to non-jailbroken phones. This means that ScummVM will need to come bundled with game files in AppStore. Which means that we will need to get license from game companies to sell their products for a profit. Not going to happen.
Surely that's not true? Unless you mean 'without adding iPhone specific features'. I have VideoSafe and that allows you to transfer photos and movie files to the iPhone via FTP and USB cable from within the app.

That's an official App that copies files onto the iPhone to use. I thought the main issue was that Apple prohibit the running of game scripts, rather than anything technical?

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rotane
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Post by rotane »

Again, quoting Vinterstum from one page back:

This is a portion of Apple's EULA:
3.3.2 An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).
Almost all of the games ScummVM support, are script driven. Scripts are interpreted code. Hence they can't be downloaded to the device by ScummVM.

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Mort
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Post by Mort »

That was kinda my point. But you managed it in one sentence.

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Chiffa
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Post by Chiffa »

rotane wrote:Again, quoting Vinterstum from one page back:

This is a portion of Apple's EULA:
3.3.2 An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).
Almost all of the games ScummVM support, are script driven. Scripts are interpreted code. Hence they can't be downloaded to the device by ScummVM.
But would adding a File Server feature (like Quickoffice files and lots of other apps like that) not solve that?

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rotane
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Post by rotane »

Hence they can't be downloaded to the device by ScummVM.
Chiffa wrote:But would adding a File Server feature (like Quickoffice files and lots of other apps like that) not solve that?
No. "Can't" doesn't mean it's a technological issue. It means "you must not".

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rotane
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Post by rotane »

You people fail to understand. Of course you can transfer files onto your iPhone and subsequently view them (and Apple allows you to do so). You are not allowed to transfer interpreted code onto the device and subsequently run it!

Office files (.doc, .ppt, .html, .pdf, etc.) are not interpreted code; SCUMM games are.

Bootjeuhz
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Scummvm = the best!

Post by Bootjeuhz »

Nice topic here, i'm from the Netherlands and i'm using ScummVM for quite a while now ong my pc. I'm hoping Scummvm will be added to the Appstore finally...my iphone is coming soon!

Ofcourse i'm willing to pay 10-20 euro's/dollars for it ;)!!!

Well all of you working on this project, keep up the good work... and thank you for all these great oldschool moments again!

grtz,
B

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