And that's why there is a -devel discussion about enhancements in general.MusicallyInspired wrote:I'm not demanding my own personal way. I just think that a game should be represented in its original form with all optional aesthetic enhancements disabled until the user wants to enable them. That's the safest route to not tick anybody off with. Even the people who disagree with my distaste of undithered mode agree with that.
You just want undithering not on by default. Maybe someone really likes the original sierra save/restore dialogs. That's replaced on default as well, which actually removes part of the game. It's exactly the same as with all the other enhancements. Those are all changing parts of the game.
I guess this has just to do with us not adding a GUI option in 1.2.0. If it's just about having another default, it would be pretty weird.Actually, I have done that and when I expressed my intention to do such a thing I had quite a positive response from those who were interested in my port just so that dithering was the default setting. This was before I realised about the fix you can add to the scummvm.ini file, but the reaction alone should tell you something.Again: there is an option. ScummVM is also open-source. You are free to fork it and do your own MusicallyInspired port.
I'm not forcing my opinion on everyone else. Everyone else agrees with me except for you and a couple other devs. You, on the other hand, are forcing everybody ever who uses ScummVM to play these games in a way that they never were before by default.[/quote]No one is forcing anyone to use anything. Actually you try to force your taste/opinion upon everyone else.
Again: I DO NOT.
Repeat: I DO NOT. Is that so hard? It was a team decision. I did not switch undithering on default just because of my own opinion.
You actually saidWhat are you doing right now by talking to me this way if not saying "Screw you." I've not done anything to deserve that kind of attitude. You just disagree with me and somehow deduce that I deserved to be attacked for that.Also we wasted lots of time and we were also not paid a dime for it. Oh yeah, that's a big screw you from us, right.
So it's a "screw you", because the current default is different from the one that you would like.are just getting a big "screw you" from the ScummVM team because their opinion matters more than their's.
In that case, I prefer PC Speaker sound. So I'm getting screwed, because the default is something else? Don't tell me, that I can just switch to PC Speaker.
It would be a "screw you", if there was no option at all.
I'm assuming and you are stating facts, right?I think you're assuming too much here. Technically the colours are there. Artistically they most definitely aren't there. An artist doesn't think technically, they think artistically. Especially where visual art is concerned.The backgrounds are actually almost 256 colors. We do not invent those colors. The colors are there.
You are assuming based on your opinion/taste and I'm assuming based on the data. At least I definitely know, that they wanted more colors. The dithering was a workaround to get those more colors. That's a fact stated in the LSL book.
Since WJPs gamma correction change yesterday, no - those are actually now the exact same colors. The colors are mixed correctly now.IT DOESN'T MATTER how many more colours you can interpret from it. They're not the same colours.
And that's a global decision. Some engines have enhancements already enabled on default for now. It's currently discussed on -devel. I personally don't really care about the outcome. Anyway, I will fully accept the outcome and I hope you will do so as well.Yes, for the seventeenth time I see that. That's great. Hurrah. But that doesn't excuse the argument of whether or not ScummVM should be enabling such features by default.
The easy solution is to wait for the result of the -devel discussion. Maybe it will ALL be disabled on default. Which I actually hope.Easy solution? Keep the original as default so people can play as they remember it from the get go and add the colour enhancement as an optional toggle if they want to spice things up. Having it the other way around just ruffles too many feathers as is happening here.
What about the backgrounds I have drawn? What about the backgrounds of other SCI fangames?[/quote]So you drew those backgrounds?
Fangames are not really supported at all currently.
But yes, for those cases of course you have the full voice about how ScummVM operates ON THOSE GAMES ALONE.
So if the -devel decision is enable enhancements on default, I will gladly disable undithering for the games you drew backgrounds for.
Talking to the original artists doesn't make a shred of difference to the point I'm trying to make.[/quote]I would really happily talk to some Sierra artists about it. If they (or one of the game creators) said, they didn't like it, I would immediately remove it and probably even throw the undithering code away.
You don't respect the opinion of the original artists?
That's pretty bad.
that's your opinion.You can visually SEE in those examples I've posted how dithering worked to their advantage in hiding harsh and abrasive lines. And again, what about the artists of fangames? How come their artistic expressions don't matter?
If Roberta Williams says "I like it", would you accept it? After reading your latest lines, I have to assume that you wouldn't and that's a shame.
Why are the actual undithered colors in the game resources and not just the dithered endresult? And also why are the backgrounds drawn instead of just saving them like plain 16-color views?Then why are the samples even in the game resources?In the version that I own on floppies, there is no soundblaster driver. Only ADL.DRV, which is Adlib. Which doesn't support samples.
I already got Codename: Iceman, which came out much later. It also doesn't include any soundblaster driver.
Maybe it was hacked together later by fans. Maybe it was produced later by Sierra. Fact is: the original release did not include it. At all.And why does it work with the correct sound blaster driver?
Quest for Glory 2 has a Soundblaster driver. But this game is SCI1.
I got the original floppies. There is no soundblaster driver on them. That's a fact. The packaging even doesn't specify Soundblaster to be supported at all.In DOS? It shouldn't work if it wasn't meant to be that way, but it does. Your argument holds no ground here.
I'm not blaming you for not having every feature available at launch. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying you enabled a feature that wasn't in the original game.[/quote]I guess we muck with their nostalgia, because we didn't implement every possible option and feature into the interpreter on first release free of charge.
Yes and exactly that's decided fully by -devel now. It's about any enhancement in general.
the commit for enabling it was done by me. But it was not my decision alone. Stop saying that.And you enabled it by default.
Like I already said - the only people that can say anything definitely about this are the original artists and/or game creators. No one else.It's not representative of what the artists originally wanted. If they actually had that palette they'd have created those graphics with other methods. Are you even an artist? Do you understand this concept?
Oh, you are demanding pretty much.If you would stop labeling me as being demanding and unreasonable and start listening to what I'm saying you'd know that that's not my stance at all.You remind me of OS/2 users. Instead of being happy, that they get something really nice for free, they complain and complain. And then wonder, when everyone leaves them.
I have already listened to your opinion about the default. Fact is some other people actually like the undithering.
And instead of just taking one side, I'm currently waiting for the outcome of the -devel discussion. And like I already said - I personally hope that we just disable all enhancements on default, but I really don't care. I won't participate in the -devel discussion at all.
I already also said that I would immediately remove the code completely, as soon as one of the game creators/artists say that he doesn't like it at all. So what shall I do currently? Just change the default of the SVN build without waiting for anyone else? Is that fair to everyone else? I don't think so.
Windows for example goes the other route. You have to disable enhancements instead.Anyone who wants add-ons and enhancements should have to enable them if they want not the other way around. It's just common sense.
I really don't get this.That's great, I'm just saying it might be a good idea to include the fans in this discussion as well since they're the ones ultimately who are going to be affected the most by it.
We are talking about a freaking default. As if clicking on a button to disable/enable something would change the whole world.
And exactly this hasn't been decided. There is no guideline currently at all about this and that's what getting decided on -devel.Again with the labeling. If someone else has a problem with the way the original game was designed then they can enable an enhancement. It shouldn't be the other way around.
Why can't you accept that we wanted to discuss it internally first, before making any changes? (hint: the discussion wouldn't be needed at all, if we (or I) wanted to leave it as it is per se)Maybe you shouldn't do it for free anymore if you can't take criticism? Or if you just can't take the fact that people just don't like your undither feature?Because I worked lots of time on the whole code for free.
I just want to wait for the result of -devel. You just want your change. So actually you are disrespectful. And that's exactly the way to demotivate and piss off people.
Do you really honestly believe that less than 100 people are using ScummVM?It's not just 2 people it's basically everyone. Almost everybody who posted in this thread doesn't think it should be default.I don't want it to get disabled because 2 people whined.
Again: I did not force anyone. I did not decide by myself at all.So you're so proud of your option that you force everyone to see it whether they like it or not?
Yeah whatever. Who is taking this personal?flamebaits
The default was decided AS TEAM in december 2009. Where were you at that time? Not here? Ok. So that default made it into 1.2.0. Ok. So now you don't like that. Ok. But you can't accept that the TEAM wants to discuss it internally, before making any changes. Ok. And you also can't accept that anyone defends that feature at all. Ok. And it seems you also wouldn't respect Roberta Williams / sierra artists opinion about it, because you just don't like it. But I'm taking it personal? lol
I'm upset because you don't respect any other opinion (which would even include the original game creator/artists and this doesn't make any sense) and you also don't want to give the actual developers of the scummvm sci engine the right to discuss a change to the defaults internally, which is rude. You are acting like you are the boss of us (and a bad one as well).Did you? More importantly, are you an artist? Do you understand the importance of preserving the medium of which a piece of art was prepared for? Of course you do, you're a programmer. If somebody went in an mucked up your undithering code because they didn't like the way it was presented and programmed it in a way that altered the display of backgrounds in a way you didn't like you'd be just as upset. You are upset.
Like I said several times - I fully respect the opinion of the original game creators/artists. Which means in your case - as soon as -devel decided - I will happily remove undithering from your fangames and even make it impossible to use undithering at all on them. BUT you are not one of sierras artists. You are not one of the game creators. And I would definitely weight those opinions higher than yours. In fact those are the people, who should decide. They are not here though.
For now I will try to contact Roberta Williams. It won't matter to you, because you already said that you wouldn't respect such opinion, but it matters to me. If she says that she doesn't like it, I will immediately remove the whole code altogether.