Quick question about Win KQ6 mouse pointers

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:42 pm

I think he's referring to the shadows of the doorways as you walk by them. Or even those torches on the walls.

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Lambonius
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Post by Lambonius » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:47 pm

m_kiewitz wrote:
Lambonius wrote:in some cases, actually breaks the graphics (walk down the alleyways in QFG2 for a perfect example.) And like all filters that
First of all, undithered mode is not a filter at all.
And for the QfG2 issue, that should be considered as bug. Although I just tried it and walking back in alleyways worked like it should. What do you mean exactly?
Well, for example, every doorway in the alleys has a spot of dithering in front of it, and all the gates and things still show up dithered. The inconsistency between the two is pretty striking--even more so considering the browns aren't even the same shade between the dithered and undithered sections.

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blueskirt
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Post by blueskirt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:47 pm

In my opinion the games look almost like VGA games and I don't want to hide this nice feature behind some obscure checkbox, that most users won't see at all. It has nothing actually to do with the code being mine, but with the graphics, that really look superb now (imo). I know users pretty much and almost noone reads READMEs nor manuals. Also most people wont wade through all the options, resulting in most users not even knowing about the option at all.
It works both ways. By enabling it by default, people who never played the game may not realize SCUMMVM is altering the graphics by default even if some of them would prefer it dithered.
Another way around this would be to show some picture part dithered, part undithered and then let the user decide at that time. Problem is that this isn't easy to do, especially because we can't just copy out sierra artwork into ScummVM and by using the game resources, we would have to dynamically choose a picture depending on the game. Additionally this would have to be asked for each added game once, which also could get on the users nerves and is also not compliant to anything else (normally games start directly).
I second this idea. Like LordHoto suggested, one could simply draw a custom picture just for that question. The question could be asked when a SCI0 game is imported in SCUMMVM, this way users will be aware the feature exists and will be able to choose which one they prefer. As for if it could annoy users after a while, simply add a "Don't ask me this question again" checkbox on the dialogue window.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:53 pm

That's actually a great idea.

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Red_Breast
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Post by Red_Breast » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:08 pm

What would be used for the 'custom picture' if the question was asked each time the user added and started a game?
I know little about coding but doing it dynamically using the user's own resources just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Last edited by Red_Breast on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flo
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Post by Flo » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:09 pm

Giving examples of what certain options do would actually go a long way towards making ScummVM more novice-friendly. But it would probably also cause some unwanted bloat.

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Post by BobbinT » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:19 pm

cesarbittar wrote:I have to agree with Ken W here. The games look phenomenal without the dithering. Great job, m_kiewitz.

MI, Lamb, c'mon, guys, you don't have to turn every Sierra related forum out there into a debating nightmare ;) It gets extremely impossible and frustrating to deal with you guys sometimes, and this whole Sierra Police is tiresome. You already offered your feedback, move on. Live and let live.

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@MI: that's okay, I think I'm already past the point of experimenting drivers. 'sides, I'm already happy enough with the results. Too bad about qfg2, but unfortunately this is one of the title I'm gonna skip since there's exist great VGA remake by AGDI, along with other titles that has been remakes.

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MusicallyInspired
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Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:25 pm

Red_Breast wrote:What would be used for the 'custom picture' if the question was asked each time the user added and started a game?
I know little about coding but doing it dynamically using the user's own resources just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Can a small screenshot not be embedded into the program? Something like this?

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cesarbittar
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Post by cesarbittar » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:04 am

I, btw, can understand both side of the equation, and ultimately, the solution always lies somewhere in the middle. The minute "bugs" can always probably be fixed --are not big enough to do away with the function. That said, I can understand the other side of the argument where the game is presented in a way that was not originally intended.

I also believe the screenshot idea is the best solution. Just show it to you the first time you load a game, and let you choose which way you want to play it.

And Lamb, you're welcomed :D

blueskirt
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Post by blueskirt » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:57 am

It informs new users and gives them the choice to enable or disable it and gives the feature extra visibility, inciting new users who like the feature to replay their favorite games and see it in action. I don't know much about coding, optimization and portability but it's as close as we'll ever get at pleasing everyone (except the programmers.)

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Post by Collector » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:07 am

cesarbittar wrote:I, btw, can understand both side of the equation, and ultimately, the solution always lies somewhere in the middle. The minute "bugs" can always probably be fixed --are not big enough to do away with the function.
If you would read the thread you will see that no one was ever arguing to drop the undithering.

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m_kiewitz
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Post by m_kiewitz » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:43 am

MusicallyInspired wrote:Can a small screenshot not be embedded into the program? Something like this?
Sure it could. But then ScummVM gets closed down by lawyers of Activision for distributing graphics of King's Quest 4.
Lambonius wrote:Well, for example, every doorway in the alleys has a spot of dithering in front of it, and all the gates and things still show up dithered. The inconsistency between the two is pretty striking--even more so considering the browns aren't even the same shade between the dithered and undithered sections.
I'm not exactly sure, why those views are not getting undithered. Will have to look into it. Of course the actual "dithered" view of the e.g. marketplace won't get undithered, such cases are not meant to be handled especially because that mode is not a filter. The brownish color around it should get undithered though.

Anyway, I definitely do not consider that "breaking the graphics". It's in the same category as the ship getting sucked in scene in the Space Quest 3 intro. Otherwise our actual picture drawing code would also have to be considered broken, because the door in iceman in the first room is not correctly drawn.

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Strangerke
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Post by Strangerke » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:17 am

If it's only a question of copyright, we could also create our own picture, don't you think so? Or use the example of wikipedia (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... d_blue.png).

blueskirt
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Post by blueskirt » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:23 am

Sure it could. But then ScummVM gets closed down by lawyers of Activision for distributing graphics of King's Quest 4.
Simply use an original picture specifically drawn for SCUMMVM and not one that infringes on anyone's copyrights. I'm sure there will be plenty of artists eager to help.

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m_kiewitz
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Post by m_kiewitz » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:41 am

blueskirt wrote:
Sure it could. But then ScummVM gets closed down by lawyers of Activision for distributing graphics of King's Quest 4.
Simply use an original picture specifically drawn for SCUMMVM and not one that infringes on anyone's copyrights. I'm sure there will be plenty of artists eager to help.
I'm sorry, but I have not yet seen one drawing in fan-games that is halfway as good as the original sierra artwork. Also it wouldn't really make sense. The game artwork itself is what matters. There could be a game that really looks awful or great with undithering according to his opinion and he would decide that on viewing one "random" artwork, that has nothing to do with his game.

Also I think it's not good to include artwork into ScummVM at all. The user should also be able to decide per game and not only globally, which would also mean that a picture from each game should get shown to make the decision easier.
Last edited by m_kiewitz on Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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