Sierra games don't allow speech and text at the same time.

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Sierra games don't allow speech and text at the same time.

Post by Serious Callers Only » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:00 am

Is this going to be altered, considering that the sierra options screen is much more a part of the game than lucasarts and that it's setable there, yet there isn't a text+speech option?

I've noticed that in some lucasarts games that the scummvm option screen replaced the original, is this the plan with the Sierra games too?

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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:50 am

I am so anxiously eager to know the response for this question (and have been fantasizing about a positive one for years) that I find it insulting that no one with the proper authority has come up with a reply already.

And just so you'd understand how eager I am for a positive reply - I have been visiting this site for 6 years now, and THIS is the post that finally made me register!

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Re: Sierra games don't allow speech and text at the same tim

Post by m_kiewitz » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:21 pm

Serious Callers Only wrote:Is this going to be altered, considering that the sierra options screen is much more a part of the game than lucasarts and that it's setable there, yet there isn't a text+speech option?

I've noticed that in some lucasarts games that the scummvm option screen replaced the original, is this the plan with the Sierra games too?
the scripts control this completely. It's not impossible but would need separate work for all talkie games. Currently it's not planned.

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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:56 pm

Why isn't it planned? Were you referring to the save/load screens or to the speech+subtitles option?

I find the benefit in supporting speech+subs to be invaluable to many users. How much work would it take to support speech+subs for each game?

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Post by Serious Callers Only » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:01 pm

Do we need to wait until after a disassembler to SCI is created before this is considered then?

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Post by fingolfin » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:58 pm

nathanel.mori wrote:I am so anxiously eager to know the response for this question (and have been fantasizing about a positive one for years) that I find it insulting that no one with the proper authority has come up with a reply already.
And as somebody with the "proper authority" (I guess), I find it insulting that you write this after only 5 hours passed since the original question was posted. Do you expect us to constantly check for postings here 24 hours a day, just so that we can reply instantly?
nathanel.mori wrote:Why isn't it planned? Were you referring to the save/load screens or to the speech+subtitles option?

I find the benefit in supporting speech+subs to be invaluable to many users. How much work would it take to support speech+subs for each game?
It is not planned because it would require deep and messy hacks to the game engine. And also because at this point, we have many far more important things to do, things which to most of our users probably are far more valuable than supporting speech+subs at the same time. Things like making sure all games actually work correctly and are playable / completable.

Once the dust settled, we will think about other things, like, potentially, this feature you are requesting. But it might be very difficult to implement. It likely will require many nasty evil hacks -- and those hacks might affect stability of the games negatively. So it makes absolutley no sense for us to look into that right now.

We may eventually reevaluate this. But there is no point in complaining about this *now*. We haven't even made a regular release with SCI support! But feel free to submit this feature request via our feature request tracker, hosted at SourceForge.net.

Relax, and wait.

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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:59 pm

Hey, don't get offended. I may have overreacted with enthusiasm (forget "may". I have), but it was purely out of excitement. I just simply can't believe SCI is finally being integrated into ScummVM.

But thanks a million for your reply. I realize that speech+subs is way too early right now, but my point was simply that it's more than just a nice-to-have feature.

Either way, since you're here and you're the "proper authority" - what's your estimate on how long it will take for the dust to settle?

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Post by sev » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:29 pm

nathanel.mori wrote:Either way, since you're here and you're the "proper authority" - what's your estimate on how long it will take for the dust to settle?
I think several years from now. I.e. the guys would probably be interested in adding SCI32 support first. And after that....


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Post by Collector » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:33 pm

sev wrote:
nathanel.mori wrote:Either way, since you're here and you're the "proper authority" - what's your estimate on how long it will take for the dust to settle?
I think several years from now. I.e. the guys would probably be interested in adding SCI32 support first.
Absolutely. My main interest in the addition of SCI to ScummVM is for the few SCI games that DOSBox is currently not a good solution for, i.e. the Windows only games and KQ6 for the Windows version.

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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:58 pm

Oh, well...

I've waited six years. I can wait a few more. As long as it's on the menu and not forgotten.

ScummVM is almost like magic to me. Even the games which are most compatible with DosBox look so much better in ScummVM I find it incredible. I've always admired this project back in the days it only supported Lucasarts games, and I find it incredibly ambitious to try and add SCI support, given that each Sierra game had its engine tweaked a little bit for its own purposes.

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Post by m_kiewitz » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:05 pm

nathanel.mori wrote:Why isn't it planned? Were you referring to the save/load screens or to the speech+subtitles option?
I was refering to the speech+subtitle option.
And why should we even think about it before every sci game is supported and working?
nathanel.mori wrote:How much work would it take to support speech+subs for each game?
I guess it would require patching of game scripts (i actually mean separate manual work on EVERY talkie game, including play-testing etc. just for that feature). And please keep in mind that there are multiple versions of some games.

Especially hires kq6 would get really complicated because of the way the hires portraits work and that kq6 will show lowres portraits instead, when text is enabled.

If someone is capable of doing so he can already do it and offer game patch files.

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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:42 pm

Fascinating. Really.

Well, I hope it will happen eventually.

Don't forget only a few of Sierra's games had made that mistake (GK, for example, had text and voice enabled, thank God).

On the other hand, some later SCI games had no subs at all, like GK2 and Phantasmagoria, though GK2 has fan made subs which maybe you could integrate into ScummVM someday. (of course, though, only after basic stable support for the games themselves is added)

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Post by Collector » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:47 am


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Post by MusicallyInspired » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:48 am

The patch that NewRisingSun made for the CD version of SQ4 enabled a text+speech option. But currently ScummVM has problems detecting exactly which version of SCI it is because of the patch and the way NRS hacked the scripts/engine.

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Post by m_kiewitz » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:46 am

MusicallyInspired wrote:The patch that NewRisingSun made for the CD version of SQ4 enabled a text+speech option. But currently ScummVM has problems detecting exactly which version of SCI it is because of the patch and the way NRS hacked the scripts/engine.
This is not a "patch" per se, but actually contains every picture, every view, every script and every font from SQ4 floppy. I would call it a pirated version of the game, especially because the copy protection was stripped from this version of the game (but (almost?) every other script is included).

If it doesn't start under ScummVM now that's actually good and wont get fixed. We don't support cracked nor pirated versions of the games.

Anyway nice example - we can't include any scripts that were written by Sierra, so we have to detect and patch new code into them.

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