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General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

Although I should probably ask: I assume you can't just simply enable the "spawn an inventory item" debug function for any game? Did Monkey Island, Kyrandia et al have specific extra code left over that allowed for such debugging to work? It'd be a shame if it really isn't possible with RTZ - like I said it'd improve a person's chances of actually beating the game tenfold.

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md5
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Post by md5 »

marzipan wrote:Although I should probably ask: I assume you can't just simply enable the "spawn an inventory item" debug function for any game? Did Monkey Island, Kyrandia et al have specific extra code left over that allowed for such debugging to work? It'd be a shame if it really isn't possible with RTZ - like I said it'd improve a person's chances of actually beating the game tenfold.
How was that enabled in the original game?

marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

What do you mean exactly?

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bobdevis
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Post by bobdevis »

marzipan wrote:What do you mean exactly?
If it was impossible to 'cheat' in the original RTZ, then there would be no compelling reason for ScummVM to allow it.

(I have no option on this as I haven't actually finished RTZ ever. I am just paraphrasing md5.)

marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

Well I don't know the game that well for sure. I'm pretty sure it wasn't possible to cheat in MI/Kyrandia with the original interpreters - at least not to most players.


If the debug idea isn't workable, then maybe there could be a way of applying a script hack to the v1.1 and v1.2 versions so that the egg can be removable from the house at least? At least I assume ScummVM carries script hacks (otherwise how else would it bypass the copy protection in certain titles?). I'm willing to help out with RTZ.DAT/RTZCD.DAT checksum readings and saved games/states if required. :)

marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

Hang on, looks like someone just this past week uploaded a full walkthrough for the very game this thread is about on YouTube. Here's the penultimate part, including that dastardly bridge obstacle.

But after watching it, I'm starting to suspect a lot more is up. This guy apparently needed only 27 items in his inventory to defeat the bridge - yet I've chucked close to 32-odd items in some of the previous times I've played it and still didn't get to fully raise the bridge in the end (me achieving victory in the end could be entirely down to whether I'm playing the floppy/CD version and whether I'm playing with a patch or without). And to add a real kicker...... he didn't need the egg, nor the meat, nor the coins! I should ask him which revision of the game he was playing (it's clear from the videos he was playing the floppy version at least) - I'm starting to worry that Infocom/Activision screwed about with the bridge requirements with their patches as well. >.<

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ezekiel000
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Post by ezekiel000 »

I can't remeber what happened when I finished RTZ but I only ever got stuck when I killed the plant at the begining. This is what two faq say:

At this point you MUST have the following:
Shield Fear Necklace Zorkmids Flask
Helmet Knife Matches Bow
Arrows Tele-Orb Box Rope
Fairy Dust Thermozz Talon Witch Stick
Sword Illuminite Puzzle Carrots
Hay Mirror Metal Thing Rag
Book Wire Boos Keys Gold Key
Bonding Plant

Now, start tossing EVERYTHING at the Citadel Bridge (into the fire.)
Once you have thrown enough objects into the fire, the bridge will be safe
to cross. (You will see a message saying so)

And the other:

Throw all
your stuff that can be thrown at the bridge until the one sinks and another one
Rises. You can't throw stuff like the camera, the tape recorder or the photo
album. If you run out of things to throw, you can back to the Forest of the
Spirits and hit the tree to get Zorkmids to use (thanks to Moo Dools for
pointing this out to me). Once it’s all the way up, cross.

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md5
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Post by md5 »

ezekiel000 wrote:I can't remeber what happened when I finished RTZ but I only ever got stuck when I killed the plant at the begining.
I got stuck the same way too, but it's possible to recover from this. You need to burn the withered plant using the matches, and you can then go to the starting screen and dig it out correctly :) (yes, I did that, and yes, it works)

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ezekiel000
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Post by ezekiel000 »

That's interesting I never knew you could do that, maybe there are no dead-ends in RTZ just obscure ways to get items back that no one has figured out.

marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

ezekiel000: Believe me, I've read every possible walkthrough and FAQ on the net, and none of them go into great specifics about what works and what doesn't work regarding the bridge puzzle. I tried using that specific list before and it didn't really make a difference.

I don't know what on earth the developers were thinking when they made the game more unwinnable with their patching work. And I really want to beat the v1.2 version of the game to see if the endings play out any differently to v1.0 (I did notice that some random dialogue pieces in the game would be extended after patching).

Another thing that aggravates me is what is said on RTZ's Wikipedia article...
Game bugs made some of the puzzles harder - or more specifically, stopped the game from providing the hints that would make the puzzles easier. A patch was released that fixed these bugs. However the patch also introduced a new bug that made an inventory item disappear, rendering an endgame challenge unsolvable by its intended solution, though alternate solutions exist.
I'd very much like to know what "alternate solutions" they're on about exactly. I doubt it involves collecting every pickupable object in the game because I tried that one countless times.

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md5
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Post by md5 »

marzipan wrote:What do you mean exactly?
I mean... how was that debug mode enabled in the original? Did you provide some sort of command-line switch, or was there a key combination to enable it?

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn »

marzipan wrote: Another thing that aggravates me is what is said on RTZ's Wikipedia article...
Ah yes, the modern equivalent of "I have a truly marvellous proof of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain." Their article about Uninvited makes an equally aggravating reference to a room full of statues which no one seems to actually know how to reach either.

marzipan
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Post by marzipan »

Out of boredom, I decided to havr a peek at the game's PRJ file through a hex-editor.

Imagine my intrigue when I went to the section containing the death messages and noticed a few I never managed to uncover myself. Namely...

"You're no threat and he turns you to stone."
"Your decaying body will nourish Nature."
"You shouldn't mess with a Hunter."
"You sure put those rapids on the map."

Anyone know what you have to do to achieve these? I thought I could provoke the bowman somehow to achieve the third message but the game won't let me throw anything at him nor strike him with the sword or whatnot.

Mysterious indeed....

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ezekiel000
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Post by ezekiel000 »

They could have been cut, the second is likely a death in the forest. The first could have something to do with the end and the last would be a death on the river. The third might be from the second meeting with the bowman that was cut.

But I'm not sure as I haven't played the game in years.

This lists some cut sections:
http://ifarchive.giga.or.at/if-archive/ ... ecrets.htm

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