t7gre - Groovie Engine

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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rented mule
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Post by rented mule »

Once you make it to the attic, it asks for disc 2.

FYI, I didn't rip the music to ogg yet. But would that make a difference?

arablizzard2413
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Post by arablizzard2413 »

Anotherguest wrote:Looks nice even in 320x240. :-)
Well the game did originally have a MCGA (320x200@256 colors) driver for older computers that couldn't handle the 640x480 VESA mode.

Robot_Maker20
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Post by Robot_Maker20 »

I'm pretty certain the audio data on the second CD is just a bonus, for two reasons. First, dos games that played music from CD tracks simply sent instructions to the CD drive to act like a CD player and dump audio straight into the line input on the soundcard, where it would automatically be amplified and heard without any software involvement at all. The trouble is, CD drives can't simultaneously play audio tracks and also read data tracks, and most of these games (t7g included) spooled data like FMV from the CD during play, because hard disks back in those days weren't anywhere near big enough for a full game install. Games like Return to Zork, which does use CD audio, make this behaviour very obvious - during actual gameplay, when the screen is pretty much static images and the drive would otherwise be idle, the full orchestral CD tracks are played - as soon as you do anything that needs to load more data, such as changing location (if you haven't done a full install) or playing a cutscene, the CD music stops and falls back to MIDI so the CD can load data. Since the whole of t7g, up to and including the final puzzles on dics two, is constantly streaming data from CD and thus unable to use CD audio, I find it hard to believe that they'd program a whole different system to play CD audio just for the end credits, especially since the digital sound system was quite good enough for CD-quality audio itself.

The second reason, I think, clinches it. On my version, at least (Sold Out budget release), there is actually only one audio track on the second CD, with all the different songs crammed into it, and games that used CD audio couldn't, I don't think, accurately specify that a track start somewhere in the middle and then stop somewhere else (at least, I never encountered one that didn't always start CD audio tracks from the beginning, and have a different track for each piece).

What I strongly suspect happened, is that they aimed for a single-disc game during development but overshot just a bit and couldn't cut the size somehow, either they ran out of time and money or the technology just wasn't up to it, and decided to use audio tracks to fill up the rest of the second CD rather than waste all that space. Given that this was in the early days and CDs would have been comparatively expensive, it might have been in case consumers or reviewers refused to pay for two discs when the actual game was really almost the same size as just on.

Pix2
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Post by Pix2 »

I don't know if the sold out version was changed but I remember playing the original release back in the 90's. The audio on the second CD was all bonus and not used in the game except for "Skeletons in my closet" which was played over the end credits.

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pncFreak
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Post by pncFreak »

arablizzard2413 wrote:Here's a compiled version if anyone wants to test it out.
Is there any chance of someone out there compiling a Pocket PC version?

mac_es
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Post by mac_es »

pncFreak wrote:
arablizzard2413 wrote:Here's a compiled version if anyone wants to test it out.
Is there any chance of someone out there compiling a Pocket PC version?
Current port of Pocket PC is broken due to changes of gfx (trivial to repair) and the new GUI code not so trivial. Also it should change the keyboard code to the new virtual keyboard... so we will have to wait until knakos updte the port

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pncFreak
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Post by pncFreak »

mac_es wrote: ...so we will have to wait until knakos updte the port
Bummer, I look forward to both t7gre and new virtual keyboard :)

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spookypeanut
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Post by spookypeanut »

Robot_Maker20 wrote:I'm pretty certain the audio data on the second CD is just a bonus, for two reasons.
Both of which are incorrect. I disassembled the game to get it working in ScummVM, so I'm sure of this. "Skeletons in my closet" IS played over the credits. In order to quadruple check, I just replayed the ending in the original interpreter using dosbox, and as I type this I am listening to it (all be it slightly broken up).
Your first reason, that they couldn't have played back audio and read the movies at the same time, is true. But credits and the short piece of introduction with the house, which also has a CD track played over the top of it, are copied to the hard drive (inside hdisk.gjd).
And there is no reason at all why it wouldn't be possible to start an audio track halfway through.
Robot_Maker20 wrote:What I strongly suspect happened, is that they aimed for a single-disc game during development but overshot just a bit and couldn't cut the size somehow...
I suspect that too, but it doesn't mean that they didn't use the tracks that they put on in-game as well. Which they did.

Robot_Maker20
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Post by Robot_Maker20 »

spookypeanut wrote:
Robot_Maker20 wrote:I disassembled the game to get it working in ScummVM, so I'm sure of this. "Skeletons in my closet" IS played over the credits. In order to quadruple check, I just replayed the ending in the original interpreter using dosbox, and as I type this I am listening to it (all be it slightly broken up).
Your first reason, that they couldn't have played back audio and read the movies at the same time, is true. But credits and the short piece of introduction with the house, which also has a CD track played over the top of it, are copied to the hard drive (inside hdisk.gjd).
And there is no reason at all why it wouldn't be possible to start an audio track halfway through.
Looks like you're right - I guess this game's just a little more advanced in wrangling the CD drive than the average for that period. Sorry for being over assuming before; as a basic engineering principle, it just seems crazy for them to have built a game with a totally separate sound system exclusively for the intro and end movies. Quite crafty copying just those video segments to hard disk so they could do it, though.

Arantor
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Post by Arantor »

Robot_Maker20 wrote:(at least, I never encountered one that didn't always start CD audio tracks from the beginning, and have a different track for each piece)
Loom PC-CD does this - there is a single CD audio track which contains all of the speech.

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eriktorbjorn
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Post by eriktorbjorn »

Arantor wrote:Loom PC-CD does this - there is a single CD audio track which contains all of the speech.
The Secret of Monkey Island does too, though it only happens during the intro as far as I know. Even there, it's hard to spot. It's more noticeable if you skip the first part of the intro (by pressing ESC). It still plays the correct music for the lookout scene, even though it's in the same audio track as the first part.

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pncFreak
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Post by pncFreak »

mac_es wrote:...so we will have to wait until knakos updte the port
Is knakos presently active in the scummvm team? His last post in this forum was two months ago?

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sev
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Post by sev »

pncFreak wrote:
mac_es wrote:...so we will have to wait until knakos updte the port
Is knakos presently active in the scummvm team? His last post in this forum was two months ago?
knakos never was involved with Pocket PC port. And yes, he is not active anymore.


Eugene

mac_es
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Post by mac_es »

sev wrote:
pncFreak wrote:
mac_es wrote:...so we will have to wait until knakos updte the port
Is knakos presently active in the scummvm team? His last post in this forum was two months ago?
knakos never was involved with Pocket PC port. And yes, he is not active anymore.


Eugene
Ops, I thought so... who is the official porter then? I thought he was because he had posted in the sub-forum and he was assigned bugs in the Wince platform...

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sev
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Post by sev »

mac_es wrote:
sev wrote: knakos never was involved with Pocket PC port. And yes, he is not active anymore.


Eugene
Ops, I thought so... who is the official porter then? I thought he was because he had posted in the sub-forum and he was assigned bugs in the Wince platform...
Ahem. My fault. Somehow I mixed Kostas with khalek. knakos' usual nick is Jubanka. And yes, knakos is our WinCE porter and he is active, just is not frequent on the forums.


Eugene

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