We can no longer accept Paypal Donations

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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ltucker
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:15 pm

AUP seems to be about sales

Post by ltucker »

If you haven't already, you may want to point out that you are not selling
the software since the aup seems rather specific about that
in particular. Donating is neither necessary nor sufficient to recieve the
software, it's a completely separate and free transaction.

Mod chips, Modified Game Consoles and Game Enhancers
You may not use PayPal to sell any device capable of permitting
the play of pirated and/or imported games on a domestic system.
Examples of such devices include:

* Mod chips and/or game consoles that have a mod chip-type device installed

* Game enhancers (which enable the play of import software and/or back up versions of software)

* Boot discs
raven101
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:30 pm
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: AUP seems to be about sales

Post by raven101 »

ltucker wrote:If you haven't already, you may want to point out that you are not selling
the software since the aup seems rather specific about that
in particular. Donating is neither necessary nor sufficient to recieve the
software, it's a completely separate and free transaction.
is most probably covered by...
paypal wrote:You may still be liable even if you offer to sell your "time" and/or services and give away for "free" (rather than sell) a prohibited, questionable, or infringing item. This applies to both seller and buyer
ltucker
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:15 pm

Re: AUP seems to be about sales

Post by ltucker »

raven101 wrote:
ltucker wrote:If you haven't already, you may want to point out that you are not selling
the software since the aup seems rather specific about that
in particular. Donating is neither necessary nor sufficient to recieve the
software, it's a completely separate and free transaction.
is most probably covered by...
paypal wrote:You may still be liable even if you offer to sell your "time" and/or services and give away for "free" (rather than sell) a prohibited, questionable, or infringing item. This applies to both seller and buyer
It's possible they could claim that, although that seems to apply to "selling time", which again is not happening here. There is no offer to sell in this case as far as I can see.
samsmithnz
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:25 pm

Recommendation

Post by samsmithnz »

First time poster, LONG time lurker.

I recommend that you create a link to another personal webpage, that has the donation information. Make the donation to an individual, rather than a group...
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Jimbob
Posts: 307
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:36 pm
Location: Somewhere in the UK

Post by Jimbob »

I think it's official that Paypal sucks, I came across this at Eurogamer tonight.
HarleyGuy
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:57 pm

Post by HarleyGuy »

Well if you REALLY want to stay with Paypal, maybe you can try one of the following:

ONLY accept donations from users 'Using the PC version with original PC copies of the games" state that very clearly...

Or just post a favorite 'picture of the day' on the main page and ask people to donate something if they like the picture

Since Paypal wants to play the 'wording' game, you can play too :wink:
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eriktorbjorn
ScummVM Developer
Posts: 3364
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:39 am

Post by eriktorbjorn »

Jimbob wrote:I think it's official that Paypal sucks, I came across this at Eurogamer tonight.
I hadn't seen the Charles Cecil interview they linked to before. The part where he talked about ScummVM was nice. I wish other companies would take notes. :-)
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clone2727
Retired
Posts: 1611
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: NJ, USA

Post by clone2727 »

eriktorbjorn wrote:
Jimbob wrote:I think it's official that Paypal sucks, I came across this at Eurogamer tonight.
I hadn't seen the Charles Cecil interview they linked to before. The part where he talked about ScummVM was nice. I wish other companies would take notes. :-)
Yes. That is a nice piece about ScummVM. :D
Tooplex
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:47 am

Post by Tooplex »

Hey it looks like psp updates are depirate for news that they had to look on the forum have a read:

http://pspupdates.qj.net/PayPal-Severs- ... 0#comments
hollaho
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:39 pm

Post by hollaho »

A) Reclaimation problems (If the developer in charge of donations, ala me at the moment, went rouge... It would be far more likely for the team to regain money from Paypal than a real banking institution)
I consider it *extremely* unlikely that Paypal would refund you in such a case. Read their AGBs (did you?), they wont refund anything if the account concerned in the case you opened is empty. That is a reason for em to close any case even if your case would be otherwise justified. That is explicitly in their terms.
And I find it unlikely they would refund you money they really dont have to refund you. Its a commercial enterprise interested in earning money, not in giving you money that they dont owe you. They can and will likely just say: Not our problem. He was authorized to take the cash. If you feel he shouldnt have then sue him.
B) Fees for anybody outside the EU (And America is -not- the only country in the rest of the world, although I agree their banking system sucks :) can easily total more than the donation amount
Yes indeed. You have to get something local there and pool the cash first as I said. If you manage to find a bank that has a local branch in the foreign country then the fees are often lower though.
And if this cannot be done then for small amounts such a simple thing as putting it in the envelope and mail it can work. At least its cheap and post usually doesnt get lost in first world countries.
Or you rely on amazon for outside Europe if people feel uncomfortable mailing a 5$ bill.
C) Difficulty of using for internet purchases (which is pretty much what most ScummVM donations are expected to be used for, apart from a small savings for any legal defence or future trouble)
That is only a problem if you as the one in charge of managing the cash has no credit card. Or if they trust you 0%. Then you shouldnt manage it however. I mean what keeps you from running off with the cash from paypal? No fundamental difference at all.
D) Financial disclosure, Tax and all those wonderful things that a real financial institution makes you deal with :)
You do not really assume cash on paypal would be exempt from tax or invisible to tax offices????? I hope you are not so naive.
You can actually read on Paypals homepage that the comply to all relevant money laundry and tax laws. Would they not - you betcha Paypal would be closed down within a short time by the authorities.
This is one of the few promises from Paypal that I do believe!
The inter-country cooperation in Europe may not work in all areas. But if it comes to taxes it works. Believe me, that area is way ahead many of the more consumer friendly areas. 8-(
carlesoriol
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:07 pm

Pocket PC is ilegal

Post by carlesoriol »

I've realised some people is using some old software of mine remotely using pocket pc terminal server.

I'm loosing huge of money because I cannot sell a ppc version, It would be useless.

Does anybody know ho to stop microsoft selling PocketPCs in any web that uses PayPal (ebay, etc...) ?

Carles Oriol
Morganoure
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:46 pm

Post by Morganoure »

@hollaho: with "donations" or even online software, with *everything* not physically shipped where you can show them a tracking number from a postal office, PayPal will refund the buyer. Believe me, I get angry at PayPal every time someone donates before trying my absolutely free software, then goes to PayPal and complains that it isn't as he had expected (even though he could try first).

Regarding taxes: of course everyone has to pay taxes on income through PayPal. And PayPal makes this really difficult for you in that they do not create any reports that are usable in most countries. Usually it means an hour or more of work to convert this into a form that you can input into standard financial software.
Ender
Retired
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:06 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Post by Ender »

hollaho wrote:
A) Reclaimation problems (If the developer in charge of donations, ala me at the moment, went rouge... It would be far more likely for the team to regain money from Paypal than a real banking institution)
I consider it *extremely* unlikely that Paypal would refund you in such a case. Read their AGBs (did you?)
Yes, it's extremely unlikely; Just more likely.
hollaho wrote:
C) Difficulty of using for internet purchases (which is pretty much what most ScummVM donations are expected to be used for, apart from a small savings for any legal defence or future trouble)
That is only a problem if you as the one in charge of managing the cash has no credit card. Or if they trust you 0%. Then you shouldnt manage it however. I mean what keeps you from running off with the cash from paypal? No fundamental difference at all.
Okay, convenience then :)
hollaho wrote:
D) Financial disclosure, Tax and all those wonderful things that a real financial institution makes you deal with :)
You do not really assume cash on paypal would be exempt from tax or invisible to tax offices????? I hope you are not so naive.
No, of course not. Again, this is another matter of convenience. Although from my experience with the tax system, at least over here, its far easier to attribute the small donations we receive as gifts with then being in an online account and with each transaction being recorded at such with a nice verifiable trail. With a real bank account, this is more complicated since actual EFTs don't provide a reason or justification. It's a degree-of-seperation matter, even if legal responsibility still obviously falls to the account holder.

Anyway, I'm simply against using real bank accounts in online transactions. Even if Europes banking system is somehow mysteriously safer in this regard, our users are so geographically diverse and from a wide range of backgrounds and educations. I believe that not only are fees with international transactions a major problem (given the 'spur of the moment' type donations that we mainly receive, pooling isn't a real option), but a large majority simply will not want to use their personal account details in a transaction to us (I applaud them for it).
TheAddicT
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:53 pm

Post by TheAddicT »

Does the Pocket PC Emulator shipped with Visual Studio allow execution of binary executables? If yes, wouldn't this allow the execution of a program targeted at the pocket pc platform only to run on a windows machine? Wouldn't that undermine my profits resulting from a potential migration to the windows pc platform? In the words of the paypal reply posted earlier. Wouldn't it also be possible to run "old" software or bought software but also allow the execution of unlicensed software?
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Adventureguy
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:09 pm
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

Re: Pocket PC is ilegal

Post by Adventureguy »

carlesoriol wrote:I've realised some people is using some old software of mine remotely using pocket pc terminal server.

I'm loosing huge of money because I cannot sell a ppc version, It would be useless.

Does anybody know ho to stop microsoft selling PocketPCs in any web that uses PayPal (ebay, etc...) ?

Carles Oriol
Umm, I really don't understand what your problem is. What software? What ppc version? What has Microsoft to do with this? Is this even ScummVM related?

----------------
Anyway, I have another idea how you, the ScummVM developers, can get a little bit of money for the project. How about some advertisements on the website (e.g. an Ebay button) or something like that? Maybe you could at least pay the costs of the website with that, though it wouldn't replace the donation money.

Maybe also a counter? (Though I don't know if you can gain a little bit of money with that or if you would pay for this extra, but I think a counter would be quite nice for this project to see how many people visited the site. :D )

Or maybe looking for an active sponsor? (Well, that idea is not so good, because the project could be made dependent of this sponsor.)

I hope for the sake of the project you'll find a way to get donations again. Just two small questions: Is the ScummVM project in great need of donations right now or could it survive on it's own without regular donations?
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