Foxtail

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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GusCE6
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 pm

Foxtail

Post by GusCE6 »

I was just wondering if there were any plans for making this game playable on SCUMMVM, since the latest version still can't handle it. The Wintermute Engine being altered is the problem?

I know there was an effort earlier, but I haven't heard anything else about it since.
lb_ii
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by lb_ii »

GusCE6 wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:43 pm I was just wondering if there were any plans for making this game playable on SCUMMVM, since the latest version still can't handle it.
The latest version still can't handle it, but you can try the latest development build: https://buildbot.scummvm.org/builds.html
FoxTail 1.2.527.3391 (current latest build, available at GOG & Steam) is completable with development version of ScummVM.
I have just recently finished playtesting it on Nindendo Switch.
I have also checked that it at least starts on eeePC with 512Mb RAM, while original foxtail.exe does not.
There are some 4 minor bugs left, but those does not affect gameplay much: visual glitches during save/load, extra "^" characters in books - those kind of minor bugs :D
I'm going to fix those too.
GusCE6 wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:43 pm I know there was an effort earlier, but I haven't heard anything else about it since.
Sorry for being missing for a long time, I had some stuff to deal with...
Now I'm back and working on FoxTail support again.
GusCE6 wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:43 pm The Wintermute Engine being altered is the problem?
Yes, there are dozens of changes between original Wintermute Engine and the one that comes with FoxTail.
And every new FoxTail release brings new differencies, which means that every next chapter will not be working with ScummVM on release day until someone implement support for new features again.
GusCE6
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by GusCE6 »

That is excellent news indeed! And a compliment to you, you being someone whom actually works to SOLVE a problem.

Trust me, if anyone knows about how different "Foxtail" is from the normal Wintermute Engine, it's me. It took quite a bit of effort and some luck to get the game running on the ancient 2001 Sony VAIO. Even then it will not run without SwiftShader 2.1, and an XML file to get the game to use DirectX instead of OpenGL. Would this affect how it works with SCUMMVM?

Over at both GOG and Steam there are people having trouble getting this game to run. At GOG someone suspects it has to do with the way a computer handles sound, by changing his settings he managed to get it running. Another suspects (Linux version) that it could be hyperthreading.

But if SCUMMVM can run the standalone GOG version that is a good remedy. I get "MYST Masterpiece Edition" running in this way on the Sony. By the by, thanks to SCUMMVM CE 1.3.1 even the crummy little netbook now has a good selection of games, along with PocketDOS and pckDOSBox v0.63.


Now, I do have some programming skill, but the biggest problem is getting help to get started- that seems to count as one of the Labors of Hercules. If you can help me figure out how to try and get things running on SCUMMVM, I too would work on "Foxtail" for this app. Then there would be two people working on it and we could share both successes and failures to zero in on problems.

I would work on this with the 2012 ASUS. Be assured it has more than enough to handle any such project.


(UPDATE: I just tried it. Seeing it WORK on SCUMMVM really made my day- congratulations on your technical skill!)

Thanks again!
GusCE6
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by GusCE6 »

I've tested this version of SCUMMVM on three different devices:

1) A 2012 Windows 8/Puppy Linux 6.0.5 Tahrpup 8GB RAM ASUS (very formidable);

2) A 2001 Sony VAIO Windows XP (Home Edition Service Pack 3)/Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid 256MB RAM;

3) A somewhat superior to the Sony 2002 Dell, same Operating Systems and RAM, Service Pack 2 for XP.


Foxtail will start on devices with 256MB RAM, but see below.


So far "Foxtail" works well, the only problem- if you want to call it that- is that instead of glowing rocks on Load screens you get an orange bar. Leah might bump into that striped post when first leaving the train station for a split second, but that's nothing. Saving games works fine, and removing autosave prevents split-second interruptions.


But there are two very significant things that have happened:

1) This version of SCUMMVM will start with WINE on Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid, as did earlier ones. Attempting to run "Foxtail" however results in the program crashing. Tinkering with the settings, especially choosing OpenGL, made it worse. On a hunch I dropped the three "SwiftShader 2.1" files (d3d8.dll, d3d9.dll, and SwiftShader.ini) into the SCUMMVM folder, set WINE to choose the first two files "natively," then tried again- and it worked.

This is VERY significant because all other efforts to get "Foxtail" running on Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid failed. Whether it's because of the older hardware or Lucid itself is impossible to determine (5.2.5 will not install on the ASUS), and the Linux version of the game cannot run because GLIBC 2.27 cannot be installed on Lucid. This is the first time it worked. Note that the ASUS needed no such tinkering in Tahrpup mode.


2) On another hunch I tried using this version of SCUMMVM with the Steam version of "Foxtail. I did not expect it to work since it requires both the Steam app AND an Internet connection to work- but it did. Just fine.


Therefore people who are having difficulties getting the game to run now have an option. People with old devices using Puppy Linux may be able to get this game working, even if they must use SwiftShader as well.



I don't know if this has anything to do with RAM, which you mentioned: the game programmers say the game itself does not need 512 MB RAM to run. It does run fine by itself on the 256MB Dell. The Sony however needs SwiftShader 2.1 to run the game and to run SCUMMVM.

SwiftShader is a "software-based solution" to rendering problems. As you likely guessed from the names of the files it intercepts a game or application's rendering calls and handles them itself. 3.0 and above need the SSE2 instruction set to work (the Dell has Pentium 4 so fine, but the Sony has Pentium 3- so no SSE2); 2.1 and earlier do not. I won't list all of the games SwiftShader has gotten running on the Sony- and "Undertale" won't run on the Dell without it- but it is impressive.

But it's possible that SwiftShader can overcome certain memory restrictions. RAM is not an absolute in any case, or the Sony could not run "Plants Vs. Zombies GOTY" as well as it does. But "Foxtail" runs by itself on a 256MB 2002 Dell laptop. The Dell has a GeForce 2 Mobile graphics chip while the Sony has an old Intel Integrated chip- could this be a factor?


If you don't mind could I post a link to this version of SCUMMVM?
GusCE6
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by GusCE6 »

Chapter 3 does not seem to work.

Where can one get information on how to work with the SCUMMVM app? If legal, I'm thinking of trying to get GameMaker Studio games (e.g. "Undertale") running on it, but I literally have no idea where to begin. I have had some programming experience, but never with actual applications.

Thanks.


Oh yes- here's the error log:


The game in 'foxtail\' seems to be an unknown game variant.

Please report the following data to the ScummVM team at https://bugs.scummvm.org/ along with the name of the game you tried to add and its version, language, etc.:

Matched game IDs for the wintermute engine: foxtail-win-fallback

{"data.dcp", 0, "ca9842a6461cc7b00e63b5bc11813971", 154006242},
lb_ii
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:50 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by lb_ii »

Hi!

>Chapter 3 of "Foxtail" is out, but the newer version of SCUMMVM cannot handle it.
Sadly, but that's how it works. They are constantly adding new features into Wintermute Engine, I'm constantly reimplementing them to ScummVM. :D

Don't worry, I'm already working on it and it's already playable on my PC. :lol:

I think I'll finish polishing it within a week or something like this, and then it will get into nightly builds. Please, note, however, despite the fact that nightly builds are usually fully functional and works great (I've finished 2 chapters of FoxTail on Nindondo Switch without any failures), you need to know that nightly builds are not tested and may contain different kinds of bugs.

>Where can one get information on how to work with the SCUMMVM app?
You can start with forking ScummVM git repo and compiling ScummVM executable from sources.
Once you succeded, read all kind of stuff at https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?titl ... er_Central
It even has "Help! Where do I start with the code base?" section :wink:

>If legal, I'm thinking of trying to get GameMaker Studio games (e.g. "Undertale") running on it
Wiki says that ScummVM is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure and role-playing games, provided you already have their data files. So, technically, for me your suggestion sounds like a legit project, since Undertale is a 2D role-playing game.

However, I'm not a real Development Team Member, so you may need to discuss this with Dev team on IRC / Discord.

>I literally have no idea where to begin. I have had some programming experience, but never with actual applications.
If you plan to add GameMaker Studio as an engine for ScummVM, then AFAIK there are several options:
1. (standard way) you legally possess engine's source code, so you can change it to run all platform specific things (draw a pixel, read mouse position, sleep for 1 second, save a file to disk, etc) using ScummVM libraries, not Windows API. If engine is not open-source, this option is not available.
2. (hard way) you reverse-engineer GameMaker Studio and reimplement very similar engine from scratch, using it's public API specifications and knowledge you get from disassembling tools and other stuff.
3. (extremely hard way) you reverse-engineer game scripts and fully reimplement target game's runtime from scratch using C++, so that you basically write your own completely new game, using Undertale resource files as your game's resource files.
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sev
ScummVM Lead
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Re: Foxtail

Post by sev »

Undertale is definitely in scope.

I would not recommend pursuing approach #3 e.g. implementation through looking at the game scripts, this is very error-prone.


Eugene
hugo
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2020 8:37 pm

Re: Foxtail

Post by hugo »

1) Big thanks to Devs for the update. Under dailybuilds The Foxtail is playable again (I would like to not include "could be finished" as the game is still in dev and only three chapters are out - But it is possible to play through all three chapters!

2) As the Foxtail under ScummVM does seem to support usage of non-ASCII charsets (did not played through the game, but by simple testing at several places the game works not only in English. but also in German, Polish and also Russian and Ukrainian localisation), is the information on ScummWiki about Wintermute engine and its port limitations still up to date?

3) And, Yes I know this would be the question for Foxtail developer, but I am just checking opinions of others. Would not be rather wise tu use WMEdevkit as development tool and cooperate with ScummVM developers to port the game directly to ScummVM? I know the WME lite has targetted wider range of platforms, but compared to ScummVM...
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