ScummVM and MT-32

General chat related to ScummVM, adventure gaming, and so on.

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balpat
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Post by balpat » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:08 pm

Ah, thanks, MusicallyInspired, I forgot that there were MTBLAST.DRV as well. :) You're right, of course.
But still, it is just so much easier to use ScummVM.


I don't know, dknute, but I've got an CM-32L and I never have any problems. Not in ScummVM and not in DOSBox - plus, I don't need any delaysysex command to have accurate music).

Also, it is normal for the LED to flash not as fast for it to be mistaken as a slightly less bright LED. This sounds very strange in my opinion.
It really sounds to me like there's something wrong. You said earlier that you have another USB-MIDI interface, didn't you? Have you tested with that as well? Because, honestly, to me, it still sounds like hardware failure. Maybe not of your Roland device but of the MIDI-interface?

dknute
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Post by dknute » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:47 pm

Oh, I'm pretty sure now it's due to my USB MIDI interface. I don't think it's broken though, rather it's too fast for the poor old MT-32 :)

hoot player works. Just like that, never had any real problems with it.

DOSBox works only when slowed down to a crawl, or with the SysEx throttling system introduced in SVN. The reason this got added is because many people had problems similar to mine, and asked for help on VOGONS forum.

ScummVM doesn't work properly for me and there is no way, as far as I know, to slow down SysEx data sent to MT-32. All I'm asking for is a system like in DOSBox, doesn't even need to be a GUI option, I can work with config files just fine.

I do realize that there are MIDI cables out there that "just work". No idea why, maybe those have built-in SysEx throttling or are simply somewhat slower in general. One such cable was close to being made obsolete when the manufacturer got very tardy with x64 driver for Vista and Windows 7. So, should we all get a "compatible" interface that might just stop working come next Windows version, or wouldn't it be better to add a software workaround for new hardware to ScummVM?

And yes, I do have another, cheap USB MIDI interface but that one never quite worked right. I also have SB128 soundcard with MIDI output but it's no longer supported in x64 systems. I can test it on XP machine but even if it works well, that doesn't really help me in any way.

balpat
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Post by balpat » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:36 am

I use a ESI Romio II USB to MIDI interace with Windows 7 64bit and, as I said, never had any problems. Not in DOSBox, not in ScummVM.

I didn't require any drivers. Windows 7 had them included (or could download them from Microsoft's Windows Update servers - I don't remember exactly).

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Red_Breast
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Post by Red_Breast » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:05 am

dknute wrote: Back to the main problem: I couldn't find any live CD/DVD Linux that would come with ScummVM and I don't want to do a full install just to test it.
It might be too late or not exactly what you need but I know Puppy Arcade has ScummVM included.
http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm

potatis
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Post by potatis » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:07 pm

what hardware is required to play MT-32 emulated in ScummVM? Will a Core i5 Mac mini be sufficient?

Mau1wurf1977
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Post by Mau1wurf1977 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:54 am

Not sure if this has been posted.

But Puppy Linux allows you to write changes onto the CD/DVD which is quite nifty.

So you burn your ISO, then boot Puppy and then install your emulator and copy all the games over.

Might be worth a try?

The other option is using a USB stick. Most machines these days can boot from USB and it should also be a little bit faster. With prices so cheap it's also something you should look at.
balpat wrote:I'm using a CM-32L which is essentially a MT-32 and I don't have any problems.
Careful with Sierra Games.

Most of the older Sierra games are best enjoyed on a MT-32 (Old). That's the one with the LCD display and without (this is important) the headphone socket at the back.

Many Sierra and Dynamix games have sounds that only sound correct on this unit.

balpat
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Post by balpat » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:40 am

Are you sure, Mau1wurf1977?

I tested it and compared practically all my Sierra and Dynamix games with MT32 recordings from Queststudios and they all sound exactly the same on my CM-32L - both in DOSBox and (as far as support goes) in ScummVM.

I think that it is a myth made up by a lazy supporter way back in the old days that people still somehow believe.

Mau1wurf1977
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Post by Mau1wurf1977 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:11 am

balpat wrote:Are you sure, Mau1wurf1977?

I tested it and compared practically all my Sierra and Dynamix games with MT32 recordings from Queststudios and they all sound exactly the same on my CM-32L - both in DOSBox and (as far as support goes) in ScummVM.
The differences are subtle and only certain custom sounds are affected. It's not something you notice when you just play the game, you really need to be kind of a perfectionist and have attention to detail :D

I documented one of my findings on queststudios.com

http://queststudios.com/smf/index.php?P ... pic=3210.0

I even have a YouTube video in that link which was recorded on a MT-32(Old). So you won't have an issue replicating these phenomenons...

Another game is Wing Commander. During the fireworks scene the MT-32(Old) is the only device where the fire works don't clip (you still need to set the volume to ~ 60 or so). On all the other units it clips (clipping is when you overdo it with an amp and it distorts).

This is because the MT-32(Old) amplifies the signal a different way compared to all the other units.

There is also a list on Wikipedia with games that sound different. Note that it's just a few sounds though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKjWI6modB4

So yea, the rabbit hole goes quite deep. Just depends if you are up for the discovery or not...

Lucasarts games on the other hand. That's where you want to have a CM-32L as they use some of the 33 custom sounds. For example the spitting and slicing sounds (MI2 at the kitchen and bar) sound quite different compared to a MT-32(Old).

ICEknight
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Post by ICEknight » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:23 pm

Hmm, it would be very interesting if SCUMMVM was able to auto-choose between MT-32 and CM-32L to make each game sound as the developers intended.


But in any case, is anybody keeping track on how accurate is overall MT-32 emulation in SCUMMVM? Is there a list with the known inaccuracies?

nathanel.mori
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Post by nathanel.mori » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:25 pm

ICEknight wrote:Hmm, it would be very interesting if SCUMMVM was able to auto-choose between MT-32 and CM-32L to make each game sound as the developers intended.


But in any case, is anybody keeping track on how accurate is overall MT-32 emulation in SCUMMVM? Is there a list with the known inaccuracies?
I don't understand. What is MT-32 emulation? Is it an emulation that allows you to use the old Roland hardware, or is it an emulation that let's anyone - even without the MT-32 hardware - listen to the music as it was intended?

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Post by Collector » Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:58 pm

ICEknight wrote:Hmm, it would be very interesting if SCUMMVM was able to auto-choose between MT-32 and CM-32L to make each game sound as the developers intended.


But in any case, is anybody keeping track on how accurate is overall MT-32 emulation in SCUMMVM? Is there a list with the known inaccuracies?
The emulation is based on Munt. Munt is getting very close. near 100% is expected. There was a flurry of activity fro a while, but that has slowed down. As for ScummVM, I think KingGuppy is waiting for further development before he works on the Munt for ScummVM. Currently, the stand alone Munt is probably more accurate than the older code in ScummVM, unless someone has updated it and I didn't hear about it. You can try one of the developmental builds of DOSBox with Munt support to hear where Munt is currently.

Mau1wurf1977
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Post by Mau1wurf1977 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:41 pm

nathanel.mori wrote: I don't understand. What is MT-32 emulation? Is it an emulation that allows you to use the old Roland hardware, or is it an emulation that let's anyone - even without the MT-32 hardware - listen to the music as it was intended?
Correct part highlighted!

If you have a real MT-32(Old), MT-32(New), CM-32L, CM-64 or CM-500 you hook it up through a USB-MIDI adapter and it plays the music just like it did on a real 386 PC.

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LordHoto
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Post by LordHoto » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:39 am

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:
nathanel.mori wrote: I don't understand. What is MT-32 emulation? Is it an emulation that allows you to use the old Roland hardware, or is it an emulation that let's anyone - even without the MT-32 hardware - listen to the music as it was intended?
Correct part highlighted!
Since you still need the ROMs for the emulator and I think only in the US it is not clear whether it is legal (in other countries it is not I think) to download them, you will in the end need the real MT-32 hardware to dump the ROMs anyway.

Mau1wurf1977
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Post by Mau1wurf1977 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:01 am

LordHoto wrote: Since you still need the ROMs for the emulator and I think only in the US it is not clear whether it is legal (in other countries it is not I think) to download them, you will in the end need the real MT-32 hardware to dump the ROMs anyway.
Hell yea :D

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8516/dsc01822sg.jpg

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LordHoto
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Post by LordHoto » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:20 am

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:
LordHoto wrote: Since you still need the ROMs for the emulator and I think only in the US it is not clear whether it is legal (in other countries it is not I think) to download them, you will in the end need the real MT-32 hardware to dump the ROMs anyway.
Hell yea :D

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8516/dsc01822sg.jpg


Please next time do not link images with such a size as img but as url. I fixed that now.

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