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Will SCUMMVM support...
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Graxer



Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 384
Location: Scotland
 

Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic would be a cool addition. It's like a mixture of AGI text input with the Feeble Files' technique of fake 3D through use of still pictures and video files. (There is no actual proper 3D in the game, which makes it more ScummVM than Residual.)



I think (without too much expierience, so I may be wrong) that this would be a relatively easy game to include. The graphics just works like:

still picture ---> still picture with video on top ---> video

And I know that no-one will work on a game's engine unless it's of personal interest to them. I just wanted to bring Starship Titanic up.

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Post Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:24 pm 
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md5
ScummVM Developer


Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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Location: Athens, Greece
 

quote:
Originally posted by Graxer
Douglas Adams' Starship Titanic would be a cool addition. It's like a mixture of AGI text input with the Feeble Files' technique of fake 3D through use of still pictures and video files. (There is no actual proper 3D in the game, which makes it more ScummVM than Residual.)



I think (without too much expierience, so I may be wrong) that this would be a relatively easy game to include. The graphics just works like:

still picture ---> still picture with video on top ---> video

And I know that no-one will work on a game's engine unless it's of personal interest to them. I just wanted to bring Starship Titanic up.


As always, the largest chunk of work when adding a game is not the game's resources (i.e. backgrounds, sprites, sounds etc), but the actual game logic itself
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Post Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:55 pm 
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ScottT
ScummVM Developer


Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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Location: .au
 

quote:
Originally posted by md5
As always, the largest chunk of work when adding a game is not the game's resources (i.e. backgrounds, sprites, sounds etc), but the actual game logic itself


... which would appear to be fairly hard-coded into the game.
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Post Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:13 am 
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wisefire



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
 

quote:
Originally posted by ScottT
quote:
Originally posted by md5
As always, the largest chunk of work when adding a game is not the game's resources (i.e. backgrounds, sprites, sounds etc), but the actual game logic itself


... which would appear to be fairly hard-coded into the game.


which means that there is almost no chance of getting support for it in scumm, i would imagine.
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Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:12 pm 
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clone2727
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 1592
Location: NJ, USA
 

quote:
Originally posted by wisefire
quote:
Originally posted by ScottT
quote:
Originally posted by md5
As always, the largest chunk of work when adding a game is not the game's resources (i.e. backgrounds, sprites, sounds etc), but the actual game logic itself


... which would appear to be fairly hard-coded into the game.


which means that there is almost no chance of getting support for it in scumm, i would imagine.
Not necessarily. You would "just" need to find someone dedicated and willing enough to work on it as it's a very arduous task.
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Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:37 pm 
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bobdevis



Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 563
 

quote:
Originally posted by clone2727
Not necessarily. You would "just" need to find someone dedicated and willing enough to work on it as it's a very arduous task.


You mean "reverse engineer the whole thing from play experience", right?
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Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:49 pm 
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clone2727
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quote:
Originally posted by bobdevis
quote:
Originally posted by clone2727
Not necessarily. You would "just" need to find someone dedicated and willing enough to work on it as it's a very arduous task.


You mean "reverse engineer the whole thing from play experience", right?
No.
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Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:02 pm 
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KuroShiro



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 455
Location: Miyazaki, Japan
 

quote:
Originally posted by bobdevis
quote:
Originally posted by clone2727
Not necessarily. You would "just" need to find someone dedicated and willing enough to work on it as it's a very arduous task.


You mean "reverse engineer the whole thing from play experience", right?


I think he means "reverse engineer the whole thing from decompiling it, graphing out and studying all the functions/opcodes, and rebuilding them from scratch".
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Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:41 pm 
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wisefire



Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
 

quote:
Originally posted by KuroShiro
quote:
Originally posted by bobdevis
quote:
Originally posted by clone2727
Not necessarily. You would "just" need to find someone dedicated and willing enough to work on it as it's a very arduous task.


You mean "reverse engineer the whole thing from play experience", right?


I think he means "reverse engineer the whole thing from decompiling it, graphing out and studying all the functions/opcodes, and rebuilding them from scratch".


if you show me how, i'll do it Razz
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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:35 am 
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LordHoto
ScummVM Developer


Joined: 30 Oct 2005
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quote:
Originally posted by KuroShiro

I think he means "reverse engineer the whole thing from decompiling it, graphing out and studying all the functions/opcodes, and rebuilding them from scratch".


I guess disassembling rather than decompiling though ;-).
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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:07 am 
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bobdevis



Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 563
 

Sorry for continuing off-topic, but for me this is kind of an interesting question.

If you rewrite the logic yourself, it may take longer but you are sure you CAN finish. The process may be less challenging but also a lot less frustrating. The result is also cleaner and easier to maintain and fix.

If you go for disassembly there is no guarantee of anything because the thing may be just too complex to figure out.
Giving up after months of frustrating work is not a nice prospect.

Or lat least, so it seems to me. I am by no means an assembly expert, so maybe I am just not knowledgeable enough.

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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:27 am 
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KuroShiro



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 455
Location: Miyazaki, Japan
 

quote:
Originally posted by LordHoto
quote:
Originally posted by KuroShiro

I think he means "reverse engineer the whole thing from decompiling it, graphing out and studying all the functions/opcodes, and rebuilding them from scratch".


I guess disassembling rather than decompiling though Wink.


Indeed. Been a while since I've done any programming.

And I would imagine that trying to reprogram a game engine just based on gameplay experience, with no knowledge of the engine internals (especially one with a lot of hard-coded logic) would border on impossible.
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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:37 am 
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fingolfin
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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It is possible, though quite difficult; and you must be very, very, *very* precise and controlled to make sure you don't miss any details etc. And even then it's quite likely that you missed some little nuance, which can hurt the overall thing badly, in ways you may not have forseen.
Anyway, the Exult project started out, AFAIK, mostly based on this approach.

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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:55 am 
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MeddlingMonk



Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 132
 

quote:
Originally posted by fingolfin
Anyway, the Exult project started out, AFAIK, mostly based on this approach.


Considering how approximate the gameplay of Exult was in the early days, you're probably right. I think actually working out usecode came much, much later on.
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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:31 pm 
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fingolfin
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Usecode is only part of the story for Exult. It did support Usecode early on, but many things, e.g. the combat system, involve many parameters and behaviors which are *not* encoded into usecode scripts. I.e., they were hard coded.

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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:39 pm 
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